• Phoebe Snow Obs-Lounge Cars

  • Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.
Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.

Moderator: blockline4180

  by livesteamer
The current issue of Railpace got me thinking about any future plans to try and secure those great looking obs-lounges should Metro-North ever plan to dispose of them. Has any discussion taken place to maybe secure an option to purchase the cars when Metro-North decides to give them up? I don't see that happening in the near to distant future but who knows what might happen.

  by jhdeasy
While I am not aware of any Metro North plans to retire and dispose of these two cars, which clearly have a substantial service life remaining, your point is well taken ... appropriate museums, historical societies, short lines and individuals may want to consider their future interest in these cars at this time, so that if and when a disposition announcement is made, they will be prepared to take action. I wonder if Metro North would donate them to a museum or historical society, or sell them to the high bidders; probably the latter of the two options.

Some photos of these 2 cars in LIRR parlor car service (and later in Metro North service) are online at:

http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/ ... bogue.html


http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/ ... roken.html

  by Dieter
There's a blurb in a recent TRAINS about them, where the writer says there are rumors that they may be up for sale. I think that's a myth.

What I would like to see is a group approach Metro North with the proposal (and offer to foot the bill) to have one of the tail cars repainted into it's original Lackawanna colors.

I just hope that they know where the rear doors are that they removed in favor of a large piece of tinted plastic.

Metro North isn't smart enough (they really don't care at all) to realize the PR value of those cars, and how they could even farm them out on excursion trains in the region (does insurance allow any anymore?) with operating kitchen and flowing bar.

The way they approach PR reminds me of my friend in Rochester who sneered that Conrail was actually "COMMUNIST RAIL"!

Some idiot will decide to shed those cars soon. Just make sure that you put your kid through school to become an attorney, or perferably an orthodontist, as they seem to be the only people who can afford to purchase and maintain a private rail car these days!


  by LI Loco
Metro North has used the cars in special service and they have received offers from various groups to purchase them should the railroad decide it no longer has need for them.

Given MTA's current financial situation, I would not be surprised if a sale is made in the not-too-distant future.

  by x600
I'm sure if these cars became available Erie Lackawanna Dining car Preservation Society would some how manage to snap them up. I would donate more for saving these cars.
For more info check out eldcps.org
Greg O

  by Tri-State Tom
It's always been my understanding from others that M-N has taken excellent care of the T-L cars and is fully aware of their historical significance....

  by BlockLine_4111
Envisioning these cars in Whippany in later 2005.

  by njt4172

Where do you get that information from????

  by jmp883
If those cars ever go up for sale/donation/etc I would think the only group who should have them is the EL Dining Car Preservation Society. Being an EL-based historical group they will ensure that the car(s) are restored to as accurately as possible.

Of course other railroad museum/historical groups are just as capable, it just seems to me that the car(s) should go to an EL-oriented organization.

Whether or not MN is going to dispose of the cars is another story......let's just hope that if and when they do that the cars don't end up in a scrap line.

  by AndyB
The New York Society of Model Engineers in Carlstadt, NJ has the "original" Phoebe Snow train. "original" meaning an "O" Scale model of the train built prior to the full scale train. The model was built for the D.L.&W. and displayed in their stations to show the future of rail travel they were going to operate.
Every so often a nitpicker will tell us the tavern lounge and the dinning car are wrong because the roofs are smooth. As ordered they should have been smooth. They were deliver with fluted roofs. Look very close at the T-L cars they are not truly smooth side cars. They have flat pannels where the fluting should be an you can see where the panels come together.
We also have on display an original tale sign from the Phoebe Snow train.
  by jhdeasy
Introductions ... Mr Hamilton, this is Miss Snow ... Phoebe, say hello to Alexander.

On Saturday evening January 22nd, three private cars used in a Metro North charter special train from GCT to Poughkeepsie and return earlier that afternoon, were parked on track 7 in the GCT coach yard, next to the Metro North executive cars.

The 3 private cars were ALEXANDER HAMILTON (lightweight parlor obs), MOUNT VERNON (lightweight bedroom lounge) and KITCHI GAMMI CLUB (heavyweight Pullman sleeper obs).

The Budd built x-PRR parlor observation ALEXANDER HAMILTON was coupled to Budd Built x-DL&W tavern lounge observation 790 (now Metro North 2), blunt observation end to blunt observation end.

I suspect that such a meeting of the two has never happened before. At least a few of us who crewed the special train appreciated the historical significance of the moment there in the depths of Grand Central Terminal.

A tabloid might publish some gossip that "Attractive female lobbyist for anthracite coal hauling railroad seen schmoozing with former Treasury Secretary."
  by henry6
....did you get a picture? The Post will publish if this forum won't!
  by jhdeasy
henry6 wrote:....did you get a picture? The Post will publish if this forum won't!
Sorry ... it is dark down there in the yard ... would have needed a tripod for a time exposure ... regretfully no pics of that scene.

  by Tri-State Tom
Here's a pic of Tavern Lounge car #789 on track 16 in Hoboken Terminal in 1964.


42 years later this classic car ( and sister 790 ) remains in active service and in excellent condition under owner MetroNorth.

Here's hoping she'll again grace track 16 - or better yet track 8 - in Hoboken again soon !

  by pdman
Tri-State, What a classic. So many hours and memories in these two cars.

Just think of the miles they put on between 1949 and, what, 1964 shuttling back and forth between Hoboken and Buffalo and later on the former Erie mainline.