Paving Over Rt 23

SCB2525 wrote:So I just drove down 12th and the the entire street is paved from Bainbridge to at least Snyder, even though all the wire is still up. Didn't see 11th but I gather that will be paved too soon if it hasn't been already. They knew exactly what it was doing when it split the 23. The South end, at least, will certainly never see a trolley again.

Surprised the entitled bike folks aren't shouting about it as a victory.

That's been paved over for awhile actually.

TrainPhotos wrote:Why can't people learn to ride on the road with all the other vehicles?

Fair enough, except that some are too arrogant and/or aggressive and/or endangering.

Anyone notice that the Route 23/56 reactivation study is conspicuously absent from the 2017 capital budget?

#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:

SCB2525 wrote:I would say the 56 is also a no-brainer exactly as last operated but I'm wondering if running it out of Germantown also would be too much deadheading to be a viable option. Perhaps restore tracks at Allegheny Depot and restore tracks on 22nd between Erie and Allegheny and Allegheny between 22nd and 26th?

I would like to see rail service be restored to the 56 more so than the 23. Especially if the current DVRPC study for improved transit on Roosevelt Boulevard goes with light rail as the preferred option, which I hope it does. Light rail on the Boulevard might help make for a strong case to restore rail service on the 56, because then you would have two routes that can use the same rolling stock. Both can be based out of a potential rail facility at Midvale. Sort of like the Media and Sharon Hill trolley lines, but running more frequently and with more street-running.

Trolley service on 23 really just isn't viable south of Broad and Erie. From there north to Chestnut Hill, maybe.

I think bringing back trolley service on the 56 is a complete joke!!! No offense, I understand that the 56 was a trolley at one point, and I have nothing against it, but in reality, I would love to see the 56 converted from a regular bus to a trackless trolley!!! A regular trolley is too rigid, the neighborhoods too desolate, and the fact that it doesn't go anywhere near downtown is another reason why a regular trolley along Erie Ave just won't work. Trackless trolleys are the only way for the 56 and for Erie Ave. It worked on Wyoming Ave, it works on Castor Ave, and it should work well on Tasker and Morris Sts, Ellsworth and Federal Sts, and even Christian Sts in South Phila, so why not bring trackless trolleys to not only Erie Ave, but to Hunting Park Ave and Lindley Aves, as well as some routes in Germantown such as Chelten Ave, Wister St, and even a route along Upsal St??? That would truly make SEPTA less dependent on petroleum and more dependent on electric energy!!!

SCB2525 wrote:So I just drove down 12th and the the entire street is paved from Bainbridge to at least Snyder, even though all the wire is still up. Didn't see 11th but I gather that will be paved too soon if it hasn't been already. They knew exactly what it was doing when it split the 23. The South end, at least, will certainly never see a trolley again.

Surprised the entitled bike folks aren't shouting about it as a victory.

Not even a trackless trolley in South Phily??? I remember the old timers talking about having trackless trolleys Ellsworth and Federal Sts, Tasker and Morris Sts, and even one along Snyder Ave (although I don't believe that the 79 should come back as a trackless trolley, but as a regular bus route from Columbus Commons to 52nd and Lancaster via 48th St in West Philly). I believe another trackless trolley route should be implemented along Christian St from Washington and Delaware Aves to Schuylkill Ave and Bainbridge St.

Whether another subway station should be built along the BSL is another debate, but I feel you might as well build another local station on Christian St, as well as another station on Packer Ave, giving residents of Packer Park a subway station on the BSL!!! Having no trolley in South Philly is a major loss not only for South Philly, but for much of North Philly, Germantown, Mount Airy, and Chestnut Hill as well. Anybody that's ridden along Germantown Ave in NW Philly knows that G'town Ave was never meant to be a major highway like the Blvd (which should really be a limited access expressway in the NE) and Broad St, and the cobblestones along G'town Ave can be a major obstacle, especially in rainy days.

I also don't understand why the Chestnut Hill East and West lines were never converted into regular subway service like the Broad St Line. I understand each line was owned by the Reading and Pennsylvania Railroads, but the fact that they're the shortest lines in the city, excluding the Cynwyd Line, and that they both primarily serve residents in Philadelphia, is a major reason why they should be converted from commuter rail service to regular subway service similar to the BSL and should use to same rolling stock as the BSL. Philadelphia should construct a separate rail tunnel underneath 9th St and the old Reading ROW and a tunnel along Filbert St and JFK Blvd to 30th St and University City Stations for the Chestnut Hill and Norristown lines.

This would allow feeder bus routes in Germantown and Roxborough and discontinue inefficient services such as the H, XH, and the 26, and allow dedicated routes for streets such as Chelten Ave, Wister St, Upsal St, Washington Ln, Vernon Rd, and Wissahickon Ave. And transfers from bus to bus or from train to bus and vice versa should be free!!!

Trackless Trolleys as a viable technology is in its waning years. You will never see a new TT route again in all of North America. As cool and novel as they are, newer battery technology as shown in Proterra buses allow for all the benefits of TT's without huge capital expendature and maintenance. The most exciting part about that is that you can start to talk about electrification of major routes that haven't seen electric propulsion in 40-60 years for relatively little money.

I wouldn't say that there will be no more trackless trolley lines.
San Francisco and Seattle are both likely candidates for more trolley routes.

Lee

ekt8750 wrote:

SCB2525 wrote:So I just drove down 12th and the the entire street is paved from Bainbridge to at least Snyder, even though all the wire is still up. Didn't see 11th but I gather that will be paved too soon if it hasn't been already. They knew exactly what it was doing when it split the 23. The South end, at least, will certainly never see a trolley again.

Surprised the entitled bike folks aren't shouting about it as a victory.

That's been paved over for awhile actually.

So when are they going to pave the corresponding northbound blocks along 11th? Oddly this section is only paved here and there. The turns in the vicinity of Passyunk Avenue, for instance. I'm surprised they left the rails exposed the last time they repaved Oregon and that was what, a couple years ago? The tracks and paving south on the old 23 south of Oregon are in deplorable shape and are likely to be asphalted over any year now.