Patriot Corridor Branchlines

I thought I would start a discussion separate from the main Pan Am Southern to focus on what, if any, effect NS's involvement will have on any branch lines connected to the patriot corridor.

I was reading the power point and it looks like the CT river line is included in the development plans, as are some branch lines in CT.

I also remember reading CT's governor is eager to increase freight rail service in CT due to the traffic problems.

gprimr1 wrote:I thought I would start a discussion separate from the main Pan Am Southern to focus on what, if any, effect NS's involvement will have on any branch lines connected to the patriot corridor.

I was reading the power point and it looks like the CT river line is included in the development plans, as are some branch lines in CT.

I also remember reading CT's governor is eager to increase freight rail service in CT due to the traffic problems.

From what i heard, they are getting all the branches between CPF312 and Mechanicville. So that makes it easy to figure. Pan Am will have trackage rights through the Hill yard to the Worcester main line

Watch for a new intermodal yard in New Haven,CT. In Cedar Hill Yard, as well as a rebuilt Mechanicsville,NY Intermodal Yard.I think a deal with Amtrak is a very real possibility say NS rebuilds the (B&M) Conn River Main to intermodal / Passenger standards and the "VERMONTERS" return to NorthHampton and Greenfield, instead of via Palmer and the reverse move from the CSX Boston Sub to the NECR Palmer Sub via Amherst.It will shave off atleast an hour.

The branch lines involved that run off the main line between Ayer and Mechanicville are very short and in most cases just have one or two customers. I wouldn't expect much from them; maybe the new operation will ensure they remain rather than die off.

This is idle railfan speculation but I wonder if RailAmerica would want to purchase PAS' Conn River line/rights to, as a minimum, connect their CSOR Springfield to New Haven route to their NECR main at Northfield, MA. This would give CN/CP (and NS) more direct access to the New Haven area than they currently enjoy. But I think for this to make economic sense, the pre-breakup Conrail Express contractual requirement that effectively makes CSX the exclusive interchange partner for CSOR would need to be terminated. Which means CSX would get something of value out of the PAS deal.

Unless at some point the Guilford organization renegotiated the B&M's original 1982 agreement with Conrail that brought the B&M into central Connecticut, the only freight traffic they can handle into or out of New Haven is intermodal. For a year or two the B&M did indeed handle piggyback traffic out of its own little terminal at Cedar Hill, but that soon dried up in the Guilford era. Conrail retained the rights to all other business to Cedar Hill. Of course intermodal traffic from southern Connecticut might be worth something to Norfolk Southern.

Otherwise, under the 1982 sale agreement the only non-intermodal freight the B&M could move over the Springfield-New Haven line was traffic headed for the B&M-operated branches (which continues today, such as it is), and interchange traffic for the Long Island Rail Road, which would have been handled via Conrail haulage rights from New Haven. The latter never materialized.

Intermodal traffic would make alot of sense, especially if there was a way to get it from south of NY.

No doubt in my mind that the Conn River south of Greenfield will become a real mainline again. I am sure you will see unit coal trains from the NS mines end up there again, as well as Amtrak service, better service to the CT branchlines, etc.

Skullitor wrote:Watch for a new intermodal yard in New Haven,CT. In Cedar Hill Yard, as well as a rebuilt Mechanicsville,NY Intermodal Yard.I think a deal with Amtrak is a very real possibility say NS rebuilds the (B&M) Conn River Main to intermodal / Passenger standards and the "VERMONTERS" return to NorthHampton and Greenfield, instead of via Palmer and the reverse move from the CSX Boston Sub to the NECR Palmer Sub via Amherst.It will shave off atleast an hour.

How would that work with NS/PAS being able to build intermodal facilities at Cedar Hill? As of now, CSX still holds rights to that yard with CSOR and P&W. How would that work with NS/PAS/P&W? As of now, NS and PAR have no say with Cedar Hill.

Also, isn't CSOR only able to interchange directly with CSX under contract? This came up a while back when RailTEX was chewing on the thought of connecting its two roads(NECR and CSOR) via the old Hartford to Willimantic, CT line that was gradually abandoned back in the 70s. Needless to say, the RT plan never happened.

Of course I'm all for positive change, but anything to do with GRS...PAR...PAS(flavor of the week) makes me cringe.
If they would just sell half of their lines, the rail world would likely be a better place. Hopefully, NS is serious to improve their service in the northeast. Their indirect presence could make things be interesting!

calaisbranch wrote:How would that work with NS/PAS being able to build intermodal facilities at Cedar Hill? As of now, CSX still holds rights to that yard with CSOR and P&W. How would that work with NS/PAS/P&W? As of now, NS and PAR have no say with Cedar Hill.

As I wrote above, under the 1982 line transfer agreement with Conrail that brought it to Connecticut, the B&M did have intermodal rights into Cedar Hill, including use of a small terminal on the east side of the yard. They originated a daily piggyback train there for a year or two before business dwindled. What I don't know is to what extent that agreement is still in effect between the successor companies. Obviously Guilford still utilizes the B&M trackage rights over the ex-NH Springfield Line to reach its otherwise disconnected Berlin-Waterbury branch, and while the Cedar Hill intermodal rights haven't been utilized in decades I've never seen anything to indicate that they no longer exist.

Depends on if it cost them any money to retain them and not use them. If they abandoned the trackage rights, there might be an ICC filing on it.

I have been reading here that people think there might be a possiblity of a container terminal in the port of NH, well looking at it form a maritime stand point, the travel time for a ship to enter Long Island sound and transit to NH would negate any savings that would be picked up by bring containers in. it is quicker to go to the port of NY/NJ. even with the advent of short sea shiping (using barges to transport containers such as up to ALbany) it would not be as feesable as say going into Quonset RI, which is a shorter sea route than NH is. with ships its all about time and money the less time a ship spends transiting with it cargo the more money they make

Capt Bill

Is there an efficient way to get containers into CT from south of CT? Like if I off-load in New Jersey, can I get my container to CT by rail?

gprimr1 wrote:Is there an efficient way to get containers into CT from south of CT? Like if I off-load in New Jersey, can I get my container to CT by rail?

The only existing rail route that could accomodate them requires a big CSX detour via Albany/Selkirk and Springfield. That's why they move via I-95 in spite of the horrendous traffic congestion. Pre-1969, a lot of freight from the west and south was carfloated across New York harbor from Greenville, NJ, to Bay Ridge in Brooklyn and then into Connecticut by rail, but even in its heyday the carfloat operation was slow and inefficient. Penn Central shut it down shortly after taking over the New Haven. The tunnels to and from Penn Station have never accomodated regular freight service and between clearance issues and a simple lack of capacity that is very unlikely to happen now. A new freight tunnel between Brooklyn and New Jersey has been proposed from time to time, but given the huge cost I wouldn't hold my breath.

European containers being unloaded in Newark and Elizabeth will continue to ride I-95, but what seems to me to be at least a feasible possibility is an NS service into New Haven for Asian containers coming from the west coast via Chicago, Buffalo, and Mechanicville. They currently travel by rail across the country and get unloaded in New Jersey since NS, unlike CSX, has no access into Boston. The question would be whether there would be enough business to justify a second "Pan Am Southern" container terminal in addition to Ayer.

There has been a discussion on another site regarding this but I will add
here, clearances between New York (you name your point) and New
Haven/Cedar Hill will not permit many modern freight cars including most
vans, auto carriers etc. This is not going to change. In addition the
existing signal system in use on Metro-North will not permit timely
operation of a decent freilght train either. CSX can and does deliver cars
with its local freight trains to various sidings between New Haven and
Bridgeport but between Bridgeport and the New York City Line there are
only two freight customers for CSX, the small yard at Mamaroneck and
the Rings End Lumber Yard in Darien between Darien and Noroton Heilghts
and there is almost no possibility of this getting any better.
Yes, I know the P & W hauls stone on a seasonal basis to Fremont for
interchange but these cars have no problem meeting the restricted
clearences that exist on this line.
It simply is not possible to operate through freight out of New York via
the New Haven Line.
As for hauling vans etc out of Cedar Hill north to Springfield or further,
Conrail found many years ago that it was more practical to simply haul
the vans over I-91 from the shipper to the West Springfield facility and
load them there on rail cars for the trip west or south. There just was not
enough business available out of Connecticut to justify operation of a van
train out of Cedar Hill. I doubt if that has changed today.
Noel Weaver