Pan Am Worcester Main Line

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:20 am So when a railroad like CSX or Pan Am sells their tracks to the state and obtains "perpetual rights" to operate over those tracks, do they have to pay to use those tracks?

Depends on the agreement but none of the ones the B&M and the ST executed have trackage fees. Assuming CSX is the same in MA. They wouldn't sell them if there was.

The B&M and now PAS/B&E has to the NECR haulage fees over the Conn River but that track was taken from them.

F74265A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:07 pm If as rumored here today substantial clearance work is needed , and not even started, in Worcester Lincoln sq area, how does DS traffic start in May as otherwise rumored here by historically pretty accurate posters?

Same as it is today if they decide to do it and the work is not done - singles.

Quote from John Barlow:
My question is could CSX partner somehow with P&W (trackage rights?) to move its SE MA traffic via P&W's Providence main through Boston Switch on the NE Corridor to gain access to where it currently has operating rights, avoiding use of the MBTA Worcester line?

My reply:
Amtrak would have a lot to say about freight trains running over their NE Corridor. From the PW perspective, there are very tight operational windows for both WODA and CHFP at night as it is (WODA absolutely, positively needs to be out of Davisville at a certain time or they aren't leaving at all), and there's a reason they don't run much on the NEC between NL and PVD. I'm sure its the same for any CSX locals that work on the NEC. And remember, that's Amtrak track, so passenger trains get first, second, third, fourth and fifth priority over any freight.

johnpbarlow wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 5:22 am NS re-route to CSX via Worcester won't occur until May 1, 2025 - 7 months from now? Any idea what NS or CSX has yet to accomplish other than crew qualification? The Voorheesville - Ayer conductor/engineer job postings are no longer on the NS Careers web page.

Still lots clearance work, still crew qualification. Qualification is going to take a while, it doesn't happen overnight. That's assuming they found people. Just because the posting is down doesn't mean the positions have been filled. Patience. And another train is going to be added to the B&E once B100 and B101 are gone. I'm hearing unit trash as Arrowhead is allegedly looking for another local site, but we'll see come spring.

F74265A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:07 pm If as rumored here today substantial clearance work is needed , and not even started, in Worcester Lincoln sq area, how does DS traffic start in May as otherwise rumored here by historically pretty accurate posters?

Here's what I see as the facts supporting a likelihood that the Worcester Lincoln Square tunnel will be the most challenging of the entire project but without concluding it will be "substantial" and made in light of the Fitchburg Sub overhead bridge (OHB) reported to be raised 33 inches from ~19'3" to ~22' above the rail.

Of 8 possible fixed overhead structures for NS-funded clearance upgrades on the P&W segment stipulated in the NSR Settlement Agreement with no observed or reported work underway, the Lincoln Square tunnel is ~1300-1400' long cut-and-fill concrete "box" construction cleared earlier to ~19'6", ~250' north of the School St. grade crossing, and along with the Lincoln Street OHB part of a 1950's grade separation project. For what it's worth, there's been rumors of a major water, sewer or storm water line located under the tunnel.

By way of illustration, here's a couple of videos shot just outside the tunnel:
north end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd3MLWpsfDg&t=1s
south end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEROMqXPzrs&t=18s

Of the remaining 6 overhead structures the other tunnel under Saint Vincent hospital was built to what had been newly enacted regulations still in place requiring full clearance. If there's even additional work required, perhaps it would be around 2 of 3 OHB's where undercutting does not look problematic in addition to 2 billboards far above track level.

Further toward considering WML track rumors in light of the NSR Settlement Agreement, if N. Worcester yard tracks are added these could possibly be used simply to support Ayer local service and toward potential along the WML, independent of possibly re-connecting to the Fitchburg Sub and/or for possible P&W interchange.

Lastly, in consideration of what Mr. Barlow has offered, I believe CSX does pay fees on MA DOT track they once owned and in terms of Northeast Corridor track occupation, that would have to be made against ~1-2 hours Mansfield-Attleboro Sun-Thu. nights in today's operation for that portion of CSX's traffic to its south.

No, I mentioned earlier that CSX does not pay the state a dime to run over their old track. Can't speak for the NEC though.

No, you wrote that you assumed that CSX does not pay trackage fees based upon prior B&M and ST sales, correctly stating that it would depend upon the negotiated operating agreement, and wrongly concluding that CSX wouldn't have sold track if there are operating fees.

Absent the facts, relying upon recalled experience across a variety of line sale circumstances and resulting terms, I believe that while CSX does not pay usage fees for track sold by the B&M, they do among those considered by Mr. Barlow and sold by CSX and/or Conrail.

Apologies I was referring to all of their lines, and have since confirmed with my contacts in DOT that they do not pay fees even on their ex-CR trackage.

My railfan friend Tony grabbed this picture of Ag Branch bridge work at Sterling St Clinton on Friday 11/1/24 showing forms being put in place around the old bridge pier to build a new supporting pier enabling the clearance to be raised 33”. Tony also said forms to elevate the abutment supports are being constructed. Thanks Tony for capturing this photo!

I believe it's an heavy coating of a type of epoxy sealant to actually protect the bridge steel from the cement. Cement deteriorates steel over time.

They were pouring concrete into those form this afternoon. Based on how wide the concrete pier base is going to be, I wonder if they might put a new double track bridge in (just cut the old steel off when the time come). Then they get their siding lengthened as well. Just a thought.

I hear what you are saying, but it's puzzling. They wouldn't have coated and protected the existing steel if they were just going to seal it in cement and cut it off would they? Maybe to keep the cement from being degraded? We shall see I guess.

Hard to tell from that angle, but I’m leaning towards the abutment being 1 track wide