Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

johnpbarlow wrote:It's kind of ironic but not totally surprising that the PAR web site is still silent on the proposed PAS transaction. Perhaps because they're privately held, PAR need not make an immediate declaration?

I think it's mostly because PAR's web site is an afterthought; not something that they have ever put any kind of serious effort into. If there was an award for the regional railroad with the worst web site, PAR would win every year.

One thing that concerns me about this deal is that PAR/ST will be doing the marketing for PAS. Why not have NS do the marketing? Clearly they have a far superior marketing department. (That's not meant as an insult to anyone who does marketing at PAR; I'm sure they try to do their best with what little resources they're given.)

Additional questions about PAS:
1.) how much work is needed to support 286K pound cars? Is it just a handful of bridges or something more significant?
2.) Will NS/PAS increase Hoosac Tunnel clearance to accommodate hi-cube double stacks?

johnpbarlow wrote:Additional questions about PAS:
1.) how much work is needed to support 286K pound cars? Is it just a handful of bridges or something more significant?
2.) Will NS/PAS increase Hoosac Tunnel clearance to accommodate hi-cube double stacks?

For the weight increase, its Bridges and some sections of roadbed where the subsoil is not up to par.

As for the tunnel, more then likley nothing more will be done clearence wise. They already spent A LOT of $$ getting the clearence they have now a few years ago. And it works fine. As of now, they can run auto racks, double stack International containers and International/Domestic stacks. The only thing that cannot run is double stack Domestic containers. With that only limitation, it's unlikeley they will invest millions for something easily fixed with different loading techniques.

Not sure where it is mentioned that the ST people will be doing the marketing but there are already NS people poking around in Vermont and the Boston area - so take that as you may : )

MEC407 wrote:

johnpbarlow wrote:It's kind of ironic but not totally surprising that the PAR web site is still silent on the proposed PAS transaction. Perhaps because they're privately held, PAR need not make an immediate declaration?

I think it's mostly because PAR's web site is an afterthought; not something that they have ever put any kind of serious effort into. If there was an award for the regional railroad with the worst web site, PAR would win every year.

One thing that concerns me about this deal is that PAR/ST will be doing the marketing for PAS. Why not have NS do the marketing? Clearly they have a far superior marketing department. (That's not meant as an insult to anyone who does marketing at PAR; I'm sure they try to do their best with what little resources they're given.)

With a 16 hr working day for T&E though.

Cowford wrote:

What time does it currently take to get a Pan Am train between Mechanicville and Ayer today?

Back in the 70s, NE-84/NE-87 (MEPO/POME) used to run Portland-Mechanicville without crew change.

As much as I like the classic BM Minuteman, it's a shame that it wasn't updated to the 21st century. (even BM had updated it by just using the minuteman silhouette.)

newpylong wrote:With a 16 hr working day for T&E though.

Cowford wrote:

What time does it currently take to get a Pan Am train between Mechanicville and Ayer today?

Back in the 70s, NE-84/NE-87 (MEPO/POME) used to run Portland-Mechanicville without crew change.

As much as I like the classic BM Minuteman, it's a shame that it wasn't updated to the 21st century. (even BM had updated it by just using the minuteman silhouette.)

Not to stray too far off-topic; I do recall the Rigby-Mechanicville run-throughs didn't last long (yea, I'm that old) and I wonder how many times they actually accomplished it with one crew. I think it was around 267 miles, so the train would have had to have averaged about 17 mph to make it in just under 16 hours. The crew change point otherwise seemed to shift from Ayer to East Fitchburg over time. I remember it as being at Ayer. The crew would be waiting by the tower for their train to arrive with grips, radios, and even lanterns, in hand! Boy, those days are gone!

tj48 wrote:Couple of thoughts that came to mind;
1. Is this the 1st step of a total NS takeover of Pan Am?
2. Will you will be seeing a large invasion of black NS engines in New England. And will you see a large amount of Pan Am engines heading for the scrapper?

Who knows? All we have to go on is the current announcement from NS. If you read it carefully, Springfield Terminal will continue to operate the line, NS is merely funding capital improvements.

Let's stick to the current topic at hand and not worry about what-if and the Imperial Empire.

-otto-

Pan Am's website has announced the Patriot Corridor.

http://www.panamrailways.com/

One click and you're on the NS web site! So PAR, in addition to borrowing NS horsepower, is now using their web real estate!

What a pathetic website! Oh well. I was just wondering, with this new agreement and all, do you think that the NS OCS will run up this way in the future

I know it's fun to speculate about all this, but sometimes you have to say "whoaaa" and take a deep breath and pay attention what they say they're actually doing, and not read anything else into it. What's obvious is that NS is interested in putting money into Pan Am west of Ayer. They say they are hopeful to grow intermodal, auto, and shortline connections. Beyond that, there's no indication that they are interested in the rest of the system. It's possible that Pan Am put the whole railroad on the table for a joint venture, but NS didn't want to commit to it. NS has to answer to it's stockholders. Anything else mentioned here as speculation is possible, but it isn't what's happening now.

CN9634 wrote:What a pathetic website!

PAthetic Railway
STupid GRoSs PAthetic Railway!
Although ST wasn't bad until it was bought by GRS...

cpf354 wrote:I know it's fun to speculate about all this, but sometimes you have to say "whoaaa" and take a deep breath and pay attention what they say they're actually doing, and not read anything else into it. What's obvious is that NS is interested in putting money into Pan Am west of Ayer. They say they are hopeful to grow intermodal, auto, and shortline connections. Beyond that, there's no indication that they are interested in the rest of the system. It's possible that Pan Am put the whole railroad on the table for a joint venture, but NS didn't want to commit to it. NS has to answer to it's stockholders. Anything else mentioned here as speculation is possible, but it isn't what's happening now.

Oh come now can't a young guy dream? I missed the "glory days" of the B&M so I can only hope for my own glory days.

Maine has always been the "goose that laid the golden egg" of the system, so it makes sense to me that Mellon&Fink would want to maintain 100% control of it. And with the State of Maine being willing to rebuild more and more of PAR's lines basically at no cost to PAR, PAR gets the benefits of outside money without having to relinquish control -- aside from having to put up with those gosh darned window trains.

I find this topic interesting since I used to work for the New England Central out of White River Junction Vt. I saw on the map that the Pan Am Southern will have trackage rights on the NECR mainline up to White River Junction. Does this mean that NS will invest money into improving the NECR trackage from Palmer or Sprinfield up to White River Junction? Would NS/Pan Am run their own trains up to WRJ or would they interchange with the NECR. The NECR made a few improvements already, in some of their past plans to welcome racks and stacks...so they're half way there. The tracks suck though so currently it would be a slow trip.