Opinion: Who Does Passenger Rail Serve?

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2024/10/25/ ... rail-serve

Most rail passengers in the United States aren’t going over 400 miles in a trip. A lot of them are going one way and are on state-supported corridors.

This has been to Amtrak’s benefit, with their ridership growing by 55% since the 90s by in large through in the Northeast Corridor. Recently, increases in other state-supported corridors in Illinois, Michigan, Virginia, Texas, Oklahoma, North Carolina, and Missouri are happening too.

The answer to continuing passenger rail’s growth in the United States seems clear then – build more short-distance, state-supported corridors in heavily populated metro areas that link two or more cities together.

But who rides long-distance passenger rail routes?
...

Let us get away from the Balkanization of the rail systems in the USA. Let us quit trying to pit one state against another. The interstates are only supported by the states for ~ 10 % and the waterways for even less or none. Even 400 miles will transit more than one state for almost all routes in the east. In the west major to major neither except MT, ND, SD, WY. If we take a capitol or major city in each state travel to / from that city will exceed your 400 miles. It is even just ~375 rail miles from WASH to Bristol in VA.

Let us get away from the Balkanization of the rail systems in the USA.

The problem with removing the states from the equation, is you get something like Via in Canada. It becomes even more of a political football. There are a couple populated regions in Canada that once had corridor-like service that do not anymore. Vancouver Island is one example, the Maritimes are another. Somehow ONR is the only provincial long distance railroad, and even then they only run the Polar Bear anymore on a route that has zero competing roads.

I think if there were a better mechanism for state or local support in Canada, you'd see DMU service come back to high tourism regions like Vancouver Island and Maritimes.

Also, if you can't get better support for long distance under eight years of Biden VP and four of Biden presidency, it's time to face facts. It isnt much of a thing.

Most rail passengers in the United States aren’t going over 400 miles in a trip... their ridership growing by 55% since the 90s

I keep hitting on this, and mentioning that Brit statistic of >3 hour trips. Looks like it applies here, too.

But who rides long-distance passenger rail routes?

Very few people anywhere in the world evidently.

I believe 400 miles is being extremely generous, I think that travel distance is lower, like 200 miles for 63% and 300 miles for 97%.
Here’s the northeast corridor data.
Trips by length, 2022
0- 99 mi 34.8%
100- 199 mi 28.9%
200- 299 mi 33.5%
300- 399 mi 1.9%
400+ mi 0.9%
Source of data https://www.railpassengers.org/resource ... statistics

Obviously, the LD's have a very limited market. Yes, there are some such as college students (I met one of such at DFB a few years ago who attended University of South Florida at TPA; a situation where the train worked for her) and then there are the "can't drives won't flys".

But really, is that Swedish gal going to bully a business traveler off the 737-MAX and on to the Lake Shore for an LGA-ORD journey? For that I say "think again".

Now Amtrak is wisely not giving the Private Room product away. Just for sport, I checked to see what the "new Floridian" would run to go from CUS to Kravis at West Palm (Leipzig Gewaunhaus is touring) during January. We know it will take two days and the site says it will be @ WPB right X Tamarind Ave from Kravis 430P (probably safe for the concert). But one slight problem ignoring the two nights instead of three hours. A Roomette is $1100 and a Bedroom is $2000. That's one way, the MAX will get you there and back for $1000 - and that's with the curtain behind you!!!!

I'll never call those stepping up to pay Amtrak rates a sucker, nor will I say Amtrak is "gouging". It just simply represents a buyer and seller coming together for a product that no longer holds interest for me.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:33 am Obviously, the LD's have a very limited market. Yes, there are some such as college students (I met one of such at DFB a few years ago who attended University of South Florida at TPA; a situation where the train worked for her) and then there are the "can't drives won't flys".

But really, is that Swedish gal going to bully a business traveler off the 737-MAX and on to the Lake Shore for an LGA-ORD journey? For that I say "think again".

Now Amtrak is wisely not giving the Private Room product away. Just for sport, I checked to see what the "new Floridian" would run to go from CUS to Kravis at West Palm (Leipzig Gewaunhaus is touring) during January. We know it will take two days and the site says it will be @ WPB right X Tamarind Ave from Kravis 430P (probably safe for the concert). But one slight problem ignoring the two nights instead of three hours. A Roomette is $1100 and a Bedroom is $2000. That's one way, the MAX will get you there and back for $1000 - and that's with the curtain behind you!!!!

I'll never call those stepping up to pay Amtrak rates a sucker, nor will I say Amtrak is "gouging". It just simply represents a buyer and seller coming together for a product that no longer holds interest for me.

Let's not forget that majority of LD passengers aren't going the entire route, but a small section.
As greyhound/peter pan pulls out, there will be less of an option for travel,
especially for those who can't drive due to medical reasons, or price of car ownership.

Greedy corporations who are suppliers to Amtrak and receive massive profits on the backs of taxpayers.

Politicians, who use it as a political football to their selfish advantage.

Wealthy travellers who can spend thousands of dollars in a Sleeping car, while thousands of Americans don't even have a bed to sleep in each night.

Foamers.

And in a few select cases, people who actually have a NEED for travel not served by any other option, however largely that's because Amtrak as a federally protected corporate monopoly is permitted to charge a fare that is below the cost of service (not to mention failing to pay a penny in local, state or federal taxes), thus providing a disincentive to tax-paying, employing companies like Greyhound, Incorporated to provide the service for which it cannot charge below its costs (including the payment of taxes that subsidize its chief competitor, Amtrak, Incorporated) and thus eliminating that option. In essence, Amtrak through its monopolistic power that is unafforded to any other corporation in America is legally protected to eliminate its competition thus creating a "need" that it and only it can provide with little to no oversight or regulation for the quality of that service nor its financial sustainability.

Lets see how Amtrak holds up if the Department of Government Efficiency that Trump and Elon discussed ever comes to fruition....

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Greyhound is dying by its own hand, Splitting assets by greedy investors leaving the transportation side loaded with debt. Greyhound has no competition from Amtrak here in Georgia especially north - South. service has dropped from 6 - 8 round trips a day here to just 1 or 2. Really haven't checked lately,

There is one state service that gets no mention, and that is Alaska. It is unique critter, but it seems to provide an essential service similar to parts of Canada, as well as its lucrative cruise ship linked trains to Denali National Park.

Alex M wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:38 am There is one state service that gets no mention, and that is Alaska. It is unique critter, but it seems to provide an essential service similar to parts of Canada, as well as its lucrative cruise ship linked trains to Denali National Park.

Don't forget, Alaska RR moves freight as well.
Alaska also subsidizes its Marine Highway System, that moves both freight and passengers.

And Amtrak is nowhere to be seen in Alaska....

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Long distance trains consist of several <400 Mile sections of course.

west point wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 10:52 am Greyhound is dying by its own hand, Splitting assets by greedy investors leaving the transportation side loaded with debt. Greyhound has no competition from Amtrak here in Georgia especially north - South. service has dropped from 6 - 8 round trips a day here to just 1 or 2. Really haven't checked lately,

Even before the arrival of the Downeaster, Greyhound in Maine was getting clobbered by the equally-private Concord Coach Lines. I think they have one run a day each way in Portland, while CCL has maybe a dozen or more each way. GL doesn't even have a terminal building here anymore.

eolesen wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 12:54 am Lets see how Amtrak holds up if the Department of Government Efficiency that Trump and Elon discussed ever comes to fruition....

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The focus on that department appears to be on creating executive action under existing laws rather than establishing new legislation. Eliminating Amtrak would require legislation. I would expect more of an attempt to do a topline cut on the two Amtrak accounts in the House like they have tried to do in the THUD bill (in the second attempt it was a dramatically smaller cut but that bill still didn't make it to the floor.) The more recent cut attempts have also been more focused on the NEC than the National network side. While I know the traditional view against Amtrak has been targeted at the long distance trains, the NEC seems to be a target for some of the current hill republicans given it benefits blue states.

As far as defunding or clawing back the IIJA given that was one of Biden's signature laws I really don't see that getting past a filibuster. Trump has also expressed support of Infrastructure in the past and may not have the appetite for cuts that would result in axing construction jobs. I'd be more worried if I was working in a cabinet executive department (such as DOT or FRA) than Amtrak at the moment. Not likely anything will change with Amtrak until they get to the reauthorization of the programs that were included in the IIJA which is around the FY27 timeframe I believe. Before that point I don't expect to see any major changes beyond maybe arguments over the appropriation amounts.

The only thing I'd worry about in the IIJA is a side attack where they'd basically zero out the annual appropriations for any account that got advanced appropriations and then unlock the advanced appropriations that are meant for addressing state of good repair and redirected to annual funding. That would essentially indirectly defund the infrastructure bill by requiring the funds to be used for routine spending and not on the long term projects it is intended for. But again I can't imagine that getting through the Senate.

With many states (including red states) having interest in increasing Amtrak service, Amtrak does have a little bit more going for it than in previous eras where it saw attacks on its funding and Amtrak being left alone is not completely out of the question.