Oil trains to Perth Amboy???

Sirsonic wrote:The contract with the M&E to operate and maintain the SIRY and RV has expired in 2012 and neither party exercised their option to renew. While the M&E has recently stored cars in Roselle at the far end of the SIRY and more recently retrieved them, they are no longer legally allowed to do so.

OK, so who actually owns the RV and the SIRY? NJ DOT? Probably not Conrail!
Is the SIRY ownership split up, given that part of it is in Staten Island, and part of the NJ Section and part of the piece in Staten Island are in regular freight service - don't know the legal term (I guess there are trains daily going over the Arthur Killl bridge, don't really know...). Maybe Port Authority is involved?
JS

EDIT: WIkipedia says the Arthur Kill bridge and part of the Staten Island trackage (and the section from the bridge to the Chemical Coast I guess) is owned the New York City Economic Development Corporation. I suppose Conrail is the operator.

pumpers wrote:

Sirsonic wrote:The contract with the M&E to operate and maintain the SIRY and RV has expired in 2012 and neither party exercised their option to renew. While the M&E has recently stored cars in Roselle at the far end of the SIRY and more recently retrieved them, they are no longer legally allowed to do so.

OK, so who actually owns the RV and the SIRY? NJ DOT? Probably not Conrail!
Is the SIRY ownership split up, given that part of it is in Staten Island, and part of the NJ Section and part of the piece in Staten Island are in regular freight service - don't know the legal term (I guess there are trains daily going over the Arthur Killl bridge, don't really know...). Maybe Port Authority is involved?
JS

EDIT: WIkipedia says the Arthur Kill bridge and part of the Staten Island trackage (and the section from the bridge to the Chemical Coast I guess) is owned the New York City Economic Development Corporation. I suppose Conrail is the operator.

Its my understanding, and I could be wrong, that NJDOT owns the segment in NJ and NYEDC owns the bridge and the NYC segment.

pumpers wrote:

Sirsonic wrote:The contract with the M&E to operate and maintain the SIRY and RV has expired in 2012 and neither party exercised their option to renew. While the M&E has recently stored cars in Roselle at the far end of the SIRY and more recently retrieved them, they are no longer legally allowed to do so.

OK, so who actually owns the RV and the SIRY? NJ DOT? Probably not Conrail!
Is the SIRY ownership split up, given that part of it is in Staten Island, and part of the NJ Section and part of the piece in Staten Island are in regular freight service - don't know the legal term (I guess there are trains daily going over the Arthur Killl bridge, don't really know...). Maybe Port Authority is involved?
JS

EDIT: WIkipedia says the Arthur Kill bridge and part of the Staten Island trackage (and the section from the bridge to the Chemical Coast I guess) is owned the New York City Economic Development Corporation. I suppose Conrail is the operator.

The NJ.com (forget if it was star ledger or Cranford/Kenilworth local paper) says NJ DOT owns the lines so i think Don31 is spot on.

CJPat wrote:That is very interesting News. Hess Oil (Amerada Hess-AHC on NYSE) is a mid level oil production corporation that is based only on the East Coast from MA to FL and stretching westward only to about Harrisburg PA. It has the small refinery in Port Reading, but It's Major Refinery is in St Croix. Gasoline sales at their stations (approx 530 last I recall) are only a minor side interest akin to being a hobby. Hess' main interest and money maker was always bulk oil sales. Their main oil production came from their North Sea Oil Drilling Operations, but through the Amerada aquisition (technically Amerada bought Hess Oil & Chemical through a political/financial coup orchestrated by Leon Hess when he got himself placed as CEO over Amerada and pushed out the British Royal interests), they had acess to some oil and very large Natural Gas Reserves in Canada.

I see no mention of their plans for the St Croix Refining Operation (massive - another brilliant political coup by Leon thru his marriage into the John Willentz family - former NJ Attorney General prosecuting the Lindburgh case and later, the Chairman of the national DNC). Selling off their Terminals which run down the East Coast and only focusing on crude, rather than refined oil sales will constitute a major, major change in operations for this company in how they generate money. Leon was always hard as nails and was responsible for organizing and running the Red Ball Express to provide Patton with fuel during the push for Berlin during WWII. I really don't know much about John Hess. Something big must have hit them in the bottom line to change their main business plan. Leon wanted control of the entire line of production from exploration to sales of refined oils and gasolines. Hess owns and maintains all their own gas stations unlike most oil companies that only have franchise gas stations. It was always a control thing.

It's been announced already that the St.Croix refinery is closing.

http://www.hovensa.com/

Wow, that is a shocker.

Hess must have really tanked (no pun intended). First the merger with Venezuela for 50% co-ownership of Hess' flagship facility and now pulling the plug entirely. You noticed they didn't say "sell the refinery". They said close it down and operate a bulk terminal storage facility.

I had a problem with their quote: " These losses have been caused primarily by weakness in demand for refined petroleum products due to the global economic slowdown and the addition of new refining capacity in emerging markets."

This appears to be counterintuitive. Demand, especially on the east cost has been increasing. Probably not as much of an increase compared to when the economy was more robust. But with the closure of other refineries due to the high operating cost caused by the upgraded environmental regulations in the US, that should have made the demand for this Refinery soar as gas prices had already doubled since 2005 post Katrina.

They are basically stating that in their perspective, it is cheaper to ship refined gasoline from other countries (like Venezuela) to the US rather than ship crude and refine it in the here. I think the market has been knocked off it's axis and is wobbling so heavy that companies have disgarded any long term planning in search of knee-jerk profiteering in the name of survival. I believe the ramifications of this kind of thinking, multiplied across all markets, are going to create one heck of a global meltdown in the near future. A Financial Apocalypse if you will.

cjpat:Has the Bakken crude and rail transport of I mil gallons/day been the cause? The little i know is that US pipeline costs are $8/barrel and rail is $14. I think Bakken crude is selling at $65 or less. Doesn't that mean that the us consumer will see a dramatic drop in pump prices now that raw stocks are $1.80 gallon at the refineries? I just hope governments can restrain from increasing taxes. Ken Patrick

KEN PATRICK wrote:I just hope governments can restrain from increasing taxes. Ken Patrick

Unless its the gas tax to be used for mass transit improvements.

I don't think the Bakken Crude figures into this. I think this is just another "product manufacturing market" (oil refining-fuel oil production) that is being proven too expensive to be continued in the United States and now is moving off-shore/overseas, like the rest of our product manufacturing. So its no longer cost effective to transport raw materials in and produce a finished product for export. Same applied to Europe. The manufacturing markets are now in China, India, and South America (Central America just doesn't seem able to organize themselves well enough to fully participate). Give it time and development and Manufacturing will eventually settle in the African Continent. What I consider disturbing is how fast the manufacturing is moving around. Even China is beginning to move some of their manufacturing outwards. As countries evolve and develop, the populace is not content to accept the low wages of raw material extraction and manufacturing.

Just passed a good article on Bayway facility in North Jersey. Says they are currently constructing a rail yard right now and preparing for 100 car unit trains. They have huge capacity and if they ever go mostly or all Bakken/Canadian oil, they could be good for multiple unit trains per day.

From what I hear, Buckeye could be the same or bigger.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/ ... VY20130523



Any thoughts on potential here?

I am suprised nobody replied here, but I believe the potential is there for 3-4 daily oil trains to both facilties... I would expect both area railroads to eventually serve the refineries on a daily basis, but who knows if CSX will get the bulk, as I have been told the Bayway trains would come down the Riverline.

CSX did say that the goal is 5 oil trains per day (each way) on the River Line. I believe Bayway has the largest capacity of all of the Northeastern refineries. The question is how much domestic oil they plan on using and how much will come via all rail.

More good news is that Buckeye now says their pipeline to connect Perth Amboy with the Linden facility (and ultimatley the area airports) is ahead of schedule to be partially opened by September with full opening in April 2014. This greatly enhances their capacity as a company and could lead to big things on the railroad.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/ ... C220130503

blockline4180 wrote:I am suprised nobody replied here, but I believe the potential is there for 3-4 daily oil trains to both facilties... I would expect both area railroads to eventually serve the refineries on a daily basis, but who knows if CSX will get the bulk, as I have been told the Bayway trains would come down the Riverline.

I don't think you can do more than 3 in any 24 hour period, 4 would be insane, from a railroad logistical standpoint. 2 loaded trains a day is actually 4 trains, so 4 loaded trains a day is 8 trains,

Any indications on how much volume each of these could ultimately receive?

A quick update...I drove by the Buckeye (former Chevron) facility on State St. in Perth Amboy today, and there is a tremendous amount of work being done; dozens of workers & heavy equipment everywhere on the property. No noticeable railroad work yet; whatever is going to happen here looks like it will start-up in late 2014 or early 2015.....

Some news on Buckeye Partners...

http://www.platts.com/latest-news/oil/h ... n-21769644" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.platts.com/latest-news/shipp ... n-21677031" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;