Railroad Forums 

  • NYSW--Shortline or Regional?

  • Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.
Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.

Moderators: GOLDEN-ARM, NJ Vike

 #421545  by lakeshoredave
 
What kind of rr is the NYSW these days? Are they considered a shortline? From what I can see, the CR breakup really hurt their status as a big time freight rr.

 #421555  by cjvrr
 
Regional - Short Line....

 #421582  by SecaucusJunction
 
Last train I saw was an SU99 on Monday with a grand total of 22 cars. I'd say they havent fared too well.

 #421727  by lvrr325
 
NY City to Syracuse is just shy of 300 miles (285 or so via the NYC, 275 or so via the DL&W), so even adding in the Utica line it's still only 350 miles or so total. You'd have to whip out a timetable and add up milages for each section to get an exact total, but I can't see where it would be much more than the long way by way of Albany.

 #421759  by Noel Weaver
 
I have always considered a short line as a railroad with a very small
amount of equipment, maybe two or three locomotives, and one slow and
short piece of track of maybe 50 - 75 miles.
As an argument, the Florida East Coast no longer has 500 miles of track,
it is only a little over 300 miles from Miami to Jacksonville and they have
a little bit more than that but not much. They operate around 12 trains
each way over most of the line at rather high speeds of 60 MPH over a
line that is controlled by wayside signals, cab signals and train control.
The line is maintained to a extremely high standard with concrete ties,
welded rail and lots of solid rock ballast. I hardly think that this
represents a short line.
Lines that would qualify as a short line in my opinion: Grafton and Upton,
Claremont and Concord, New Hampshire and Vermont, New York Cross
Harbor and Battenkill Railroads. These railroads do not cover too many
miles and do not have too many customers nor own very many
locomotives or other types of equipment. They may not operate every
day of the week and tend to have a very small number of customers.
Lines that I would consider a regional include Providence and Worcester,
New England Central, New York, Susquehanna and Western and the
Florida East Coast. These railroads serve a region although the FEC could
almost be considered a "super regional". These railroads own a much
larger number of locomotives, serve a much larger number of
customers and run many more trains.
If 500 miles is a standard for regional railroads, then we do not have very
many regional railroads.
Noel Weaver

 #421775  by lakeshoredave
 
FEC is in a class all by itself, if you throw in locals, etc.....on their railroad they run over 30+ trains a day on a busy day. NYSW is no where near that....but I'd say that your point of comparing them to some Class 2's in New England is very good one.

 #421927  by washingtonsecondary
 
Straight from their website:
The NYSW operates over 400 miles of track in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania and is 286,000 pound gross weight capable on all lines.
So they fall below 500 but are somewhere above 400 miles, according to them.

 #421953  by Luther Brefo
 
Folks, it also depends on how much money they make. I forget the exact numbers but I recall there is a a$21 million cap for Class III status. Anything above that but below a certain threshold (perhaps up to $220 million) is a Class II railroad. And even beyond that is a Class I. I am pretty certain on the $21 million but am unsure as to where the Class II break is.

A railroad that spans the nation but makes no money is still a Class III railroad by definition.

 #422786  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
The last figures I have, for 2006, show a Class-1 railroad having a requirement of an operating income of at least $325 million dollars, annually.

A Class-11 (or Regional railroad) has an operating income of at least $20 million dollars, but less than $277 million dollars, annually.

A Class-111 (or Short-Line railroad) has an annual operating income of less than $10 million dollars.

No mileage requirements are shown, in the chart from the Association of American Railroads, who maintain the requirements of Class sizing.

Knowing this, we can safely say the "Q" isn't a Class-1. They are making more than $10 million a year, but is the income more than $20 million? Last years' annual report will answer that, for sure. Regards :wink:

 #422865  by Noel Weaver
 
GOLDEN-ARM wrote:The last figures I have, for 2006, show a Class-1 railroad having a requirement of an operating income of at least $325 million dollars, annually.

A Class-11 (or Regional railroad) has an operating income of at least $20 million dollars, but less than $277 million dollars, annually.

A Class-111 (or Short-Line railroad) has an annual operating income of less than $10 million dollars.

No mileage requirements are shown, in the chart from the Association of American Railroads, who maintain the requirements of Class sizing.

Knowing this, we can safely say the "Q" isn't a Class-1. They are making more than $10 million a year, but is the income more than $20 million? Last years' annual report will answer that, for sure. Regards :wink:
I believe the railroad today is privately owned, if so, I doubt if they do an
annual report or are required to report that information.
Noel Weaver

 #423083  by Luther Brefo
 
GOLDEN-ARM wrote:The last figures I have, for 2006, show a Class-1 railroad having a requirement of an operating income of at least $325 million dollars, annually.

A Class-11 (or Regional railroad) has an operating income of at least $20 million dollars, but less than $277 million dollars, annually.

A Class-111 (or Short-Line railroad) has an annual operating income of less than $10 million dollars.
Now hold on a minute there. What about railroads that make more than 10 but less than 20?

I think what you meant was...

C3: up to $20 million ( X < $20M)

C2: $20 million up to $277 ( $20M <= X < $277M)

C1: $277 and up ( X < $277M )

 #423343  by lvrr325
 
As I understand it, NYS&W is a unit of Delaware Otsego, which is technically a public corporation, but owned by only three stockholders - CSX and NS with small shares and Walter Rich with the majority.