NYC West Side Line Questions

Dear all,

as part of my research work, I would have some questions regarding the west side line that ran along Manhattan and is today partly in use as the Empire Connection.

- Does anyone know of a good track map showing the line before it was abandoned and south of the Spuyten Duyvil junction?
- When was the line completely abandoned before Amtrak reopened it?
- Was there a connection between the line and the tracks coming out of the Hudson Tunnels (into Penn Station)
- I heard rumors that there was also a passenger station along the line between Spuyten Duyvil and 33rd Street. However, I belive it was freight, post and excursion trains only.
- Had the line electrical power?
- Was the wye on 40th Street only used to turn locomotives or did it serve industries on the Hudson?
- What diesel power was seen on the line? RS-3s I guess?
- Any books that can be recomendet for pictures or maps?

Thanks a lot guys!
Best wishes, Andy

Have you contacted the New York Central System Historical Society?

30 st branch was still freight active till the sale to Amtrak by CR,
Was part of the 3rd rail power grid to 30th st yard.
No connection to PRR,Amtrak's access was built the same time as LIRR's west side yard was built.
There was a shuttle service from 30th street to DV,there was a station at Inwood. Most of the Express and mail went to 30th th yard/high line
Plenty of Car float interchange across the Hudson River.
NYC's Diesel power did operate on 30 th st branch,U28B's to S-2's

Re: diesel power used. Under Conrail, in 1977 or 1978 I saw a U25B leading a northbound at 125th Street. I don't know if power of this size was used south of the 72nd Street yard. Earlier, under NYC management, lots of things were used to bring trains down to 72nd street, but I suspect the trains were broken up there, and only a more limited variety of power was used to take freight further south. (Backshophoss-- does that sound plausible to you?)

shlustig wrote:Have you contacted the New York Central System Historical Society?

Yes.

Backshophoss wrote:30 st branch was still freight active till the sale to Amtrak by CR,
Was part of the 3rd rail power grid to 30th st yard.
No connection to PRR,Amtrak's access was built the same time as LIRR's west side yard was built.
There was a shuttle service from 30th street to DV,there was a station at Inwood. Most of the Express and mail went to 30th th yard/high line
Plenty of Car float interchange across the Hudson River.
NYC's Diesel power did operate on 30 th st branch,U28B's to S-2's

Thanks for the answers, they are very helpful. Allow me to specify some of them:
When you say 30 st branch, is that the yard or the entire line to the north? I always read, that the empire connection was abandoned before Amtrak reused it as today's Empire Connection?

Any idea about which rolling stock was used on that shuttle service?

NYC has always called it the W30th st Branch,From DV tower to the end of the High Line(St John's Place).
There was NEVER a connection to the PRR at Penn station,interchange was via Car Float to Greenville NJ
Believe PC pulled back to W30th yard,then to 72nd st yard(DO office),under CR any remaining freight customers were winding down
After the sale of the branch to Amtrak,CR as part of the sale,NO more Freight service on that branch.
The "Empire Connection" was part of the design for LIRR's West side yard,built as a tunnel,and was how Amtrak accessed the line,,,
after the moveable span of DV bridge was floated away for repairs.

The NYC Shuttle service was short lived,handled by EMU's,not sure of the end date
Was between DV passenger station and W30th st yard,with Inwood and Ft Washington as passenger stations.
This was the major Mail and Express Branch,GCT had limited facilities for mail and express

"This was the major Mail and Express Branch, GCT had limited facilities for mail and express"

Well, I guess that depends on what you mean by "limited".

IIRC GCT had 4-6 tracks (2-3 platforms) right under Grand Central Station Post Office (east side of the upper level) that were dedicated to mail and express. This Post Office was west of Lexington Ave between 44th and 45th street. There were spiral chutes from the Post Office above down to platform level.

These tracks are now commuter tracks. But "back in the day" the public rarely used them to get to the trains. I don't think these tracks even had doors that opened out into the public spaces of the terminal.

Yes, the west side line saw a lot of mail and express, but the mainline into GCT had it's share as well.

Cheers, Kevin

I was rear brakeman on CR NYSE-2(?) in 1979, the last through frt that ran out of West 72nd St yard to Selkirk, NY. This train went on duty at 700pm at W72nd St. . We came night before on SEOP (Selkirk-Oak Point (Bronx); rested at YMCA on 47th st (between 3rd-2nd Aves). Taxied to W72nd St yard office for sign-up.
Interesting points on paid milage for crews: if you went on SENY (Selkirk-W72nd St), you were paid 143 miles, plus DH from GCT (this job was very High Seniority acct you worked down and DH'd back, usually #49 out of GCT); if you worked Selkirk-Oak Point, you were paid 162 miles (143 miles SK-OP, plus 19 miles OP-W72nd St Y, but in reality you were DH'd by taxi to 47th St Y for "rest", but union agreement after PRR-NYC merger gave us milage 72nd st Y, though Y was no longer used, but still standing in '79 (with active turntable out front of building); likewise if you worked to Oak Point, sometimes you pulled the "reefers" (always on headend) up to Bronx Terminal Market where you would pull past the switch leading to market, the OP switcher would come out and grab reefers, after they cleared, you backed down to OP yard, taxi to 47th st Y for "rest". You normally went back on duty later that night out of OP back to Selkirk.
Just some info if your curious side was thinking...

Interesting stuff, Jim. It's a different world out there today!

Indeed. Very interesting to read!

Been digging around the net and was hoping to clarify here. I know the high line is the old west side line. I’m trying to understand /envision it’s original route.

On the west side of Manhattan , it seems it ran south and then just north of what’s now Javits, it ran underground. but then veers around (West, south and east and south again around the present day MTA west side yard ) to run above the street in a El known as the current Highline?

Is that the gist of it?

The High Line started near 30th st yard headed south to St John's Place endpoint
MTA did maintain the section that would up above the LIRR west side Yard. during construction.

But am I describing it right?

Did that west line run south (either underground or on the ground) from Spuyten Duvill To 34st, where the tracks start to ramp up and run squarely around the LIRR West Yard to continue south at 30th st? I can’t find old real maps that show the original real trackage.

I think the route -- since it was above ground -- would have been shown on old Manhattan street maps. ("Hagstrom" was I think a brand of street maps in the 1950s and earlier.)