NS Derailment Southern Tier Line Hunt NY

Eastbound NS train derailment just east of the park. Looks like around ten autoracks mid train. https://www.mytwintiers.com/news-cat/re ... ew-ok/amp/

Any cause come out yet? Were I to believe the visiting family was inside the camper truck at that time or were they in the house..

From another forum:

"Dragging detector announced Emergency stop, so head end NS #310 with 212 cars with distributed power went from notch 8 to dynamics brake notch 8, but had been using trip optimizer and the DPU was a DC drive set and did not react the expected way of killing power. End result of head end braking and mid unit in full power was pushing off the auto racks within the train. Result of PSR. May be time to cash in the stock and take the capital gain hit while there is some left. The real cause of what was dragging had not been specified."

Sounds like the responding unit on the rear DPU was one of the 9200 series Dash9s that are not Trip Optimizer equipped. I guess the programming code is only as good as an algorithm that covers all possibilities.

I'm not at all familiar with train handling protocols these days, but if the dragger called out emergency stop, the engineer does not dump it? Putting a 212 car train in emergency is certainly not a good idea but neither is going from Run 8 to Dynamic 8, regardless of DPU or not.

Presumably he dumped the air and put the power in dynamic mode to stop it. The DPU just did not get the message.

No, that's not how it works. If you have an engineer induced emergency (EIE) or an unintended emergency back in the train (break in two, et al), the locomotives drop their load - doesn't make a difference if you're pulling or braking. If you dump it, you have neither until the brakes have recovered. From the description above (accuracy unknown), it sounds like the engineer went from full throttle to full braking without throwing it in the hole. Doesn't sound like they lost the air until the cars started piling up. Along with BR&P, I'm not familiar with today's instructions (in general) or NS' (in particular). The way I was taught, if the train goes into emergency (due to a kicker, for example), your next move was to put the automatic brake into the emergency position and dump the air (or what's left of it). Secondly, if someone TELLS you to dump it (conductor, head end brakeman, etc.), then you do that first and ask questions later. Doesn't sound like the NS crew did that (again, I cannot attest to the accuracy of the above), so it goes back to procedures, the rule book, specific instructions, etc. Perhaps they acted correctly but had DPU power that shouldn't have been there.

Agree with what CPS said. Also - and again with the disclaimer that I'm not familiar with DP nor NS's train handling rules - with 2-way communication to FRED you were taught if the train went into emergency either deliberately or for unknown cause you'd also trigger the rear dump switch.

Humorous hijack - 4AM on a cold windy winter night, long train being assembled, takes forever to build the air up. Conductor freezing his tail off waiting to do the air test. Finally it's time. The rules require the rear angle cock gets closed and the engineer then tests the emergency valve on the FRED. After it dumps, everything gets reset, open the angle cock and proceed with the rest of the test.

On this night the cold must have numbed the conductor's head a bit, because he forgot to close the angle cock! When it was time for the dump test, not only did FRED go in emergency - but so did the whole train!

Sounds to me it was a train handling automation software issue. Lead unit DPU transmitter was Trip Sodomizer equipped and active in that mode, and DPU mid train receiver was DPU equipped without Trip Sodomizer. The handful of Dash9s with DPU simply do not have the complete software package as a Gevo or AC4400 rebuild or an SD70ACE. Sounds like whoever wrote that automation code did not cover for all possible scenarios, setting up the conflict between head end braking and mid train pulling.

Trip Sodomizer? What an odd thing to call it

lvrr325 wrote:Trip Sodomizer? What an odd thing to call it

ROFL! I never had to work with one but I can totally understand!

So all the savings for running these monster trains instead of running two just got flushed in the dumper for the payment of damages, a wreck crew and service. I’ll go on the low side and say this cost two million between clean up costs and damages. But will anyone in supervision have the guts to say that at the morning meeting..probably not. PSR or nothing with this regime unfortunately

If you got this from the author named "Plywoody" on the Trainorders Forum I have questioned his source. He posts items from time to time that are questionable. So I personally take this one with a grain of salt and will wait for an official word from the railroad or the feds on the cause.

Roscoe P. Coaltrain wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:33 am From another forum:

"Dragging detector announced Emergency stop, so head end NS #310 with 212 cars with distributed power went from notch 8 to dynamics brake notch 8, but had been using trip optimizer and the DPU was a DC drive set and did not react the expected way of killing power. End result of head end braking and mid unit in full power was pushing off the auto racks within the train. Result of PSR. May be time to cash in the stock and take the capital gain hit while there is some left. The real cause of what was dragging had not been specified."

Sounds like the responding unit on the rear DPU was one of the 9200 series Dash9s that are not Trip Optimizer equipped. I guess the programming code is only as good as an algorithm that covers all possibilities.

I know this has nothing to do with derailment but This is just my prediction and gut feeling, nothing official. From what I’ve seen out of NS over past two years, I see them pulling out of NYS all together in next two years. Sell southern tier line to CN and D&H / Patriot corridor to CP. For just a few trains a day, no coal traffic, no fracking, high NYS taxes etc, and being in decline mode I would not rule this out. They put a ton of money into Bellevue only to scale it back so I just see this happening

uh, they just bought half the D&H a few years ago

Yes, but they spent almost as much upgrading Bellevue hump and they just ditched that.