Re: Northeast Corridor Track Capacity (PHL-WAS)
PostPosted:Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:17 am
Thanks Andrew; better than my rename.
StLouSteve wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:59 am Hmmm lots of capacity issues south of Baltimore into Washington per some of the prior replies ... could the B&O route be used from Baltimore instead of the NEC (Pennsy) to take some pressure off the NEC? How does the running time compare on these two competing MARC routes?MAS on the CSX Washington Branch is 79MPH, with a considerable slow down for the thomas viaduct, and street crossings entering baltimore. It's an hour and ten minutes between DC and baltimore, vrs 1 hour on penn line.
scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:35 am MAS on the CSX Washington Branch is 79MPH, with a considerable slow down for the thomas viaduct, and street crossings entering baltimore. It's an hour and ten minutes between DC and baltimore, vrs 1 hour on penn line.It's technically the CSX Metropolitan Subdivision from the K-Tower/F-Tower switch set all the way up to St. Dennis, which joins the Old Main Line to form the Baltimore Terminal Subdivision. It's diesel only, slow in Baltimore, shares two tracks with freight, and lo if anything happens to the Howard Street Tunnel.
That may not seem like much, but as redwolf will tell you, throw in waiting on a freight to clear howard street tunnel, and it can be up to and hour and a half.
scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:35 amI don't understand "1 hour on Penn Line." It's been ~30 minutes for Acelas for years, and 40 min. in PRR days, with very few restrictive curves.StLouSteve wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:59 am Hmmm lots of capacity issues south of Baltimore into Washington per some of the prior replies ... could the B&O route be used from Baltimore instead of the NEC (Pennsy) to take some pressure off the NEC? How does the running time compare on these two competing MARC routes?MAS on the CSX Washington Branch is 79MPH, with a considerable slow down for the thomas viaduct, and street crossings entering baltimore. It's an hour and ten minutes between DC and baltimore, vrs 1 hour on penn line.
That may not seem like much, but as redwolf will tell you, throw in waiting on a freight to clear howard street tunnel, and it can be up to and hour and a half. There was a proposal from MDOT to rebuild the claremont branch in baltimore to build a maintence facility, and electrify camden station.
according to this thread, it was abandoned.
viewtopic.php?t=21095
but the prepandemic 2045 plan had it back in the works.
STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:57 pmHow much does CSX use Riverside, these days? It looks like it's mainly MARC now.scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:35 am MAS on the CSX Washington Branch is 79MPH, with a considerable slow down for the thomas viaduct, and street crossings entering baltimore. It's an hour and ten minutes between DC and baltimore, vrs 1 hour on penn line.It's technically the CSX Metropolitan Subdivision from the K-Tower/F-Tower switch set all the way up to St. Dennis, which joins the Old Main Line to form the Baltimore Terminal Subdivision. It's diesel only, slow in Baltimore, shares two tracks with freight, and lo if anything happens to the Howard Street Tunnel.
That may not seem like much, but as redwolf will tell you, throw in waiting on a freight to clear howard street tunnel, and it can be up to and hour and a half.
Yes on the Penn/Camden connector, as there's a lot of savings to be had there... but I doubt you can electrify it all the way to Riverside. Maybe a track or two clear to CSX's yard, due to double-high cars.
scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:58 pm How much does CSX use Riverside, these days? It looks like it's mainly MARC now.Bombardier took over from CSX for MARC at the Riverside yard, but that's only maybe 30% of the yard. Also, there's a CSX yard even further in than that, the Locus Point Industrial Area... and guess where the Domino Sugar Plant is at?
The only section I'd see having to possibly lay down a second track would be along the route after the carrollton viaduct, past the Montgomery building, with catenary. And then, it will need to be tall enough to clear doublestacks going into howard street. With is doable, SEPTA already does so.
STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:31 pmIt looks to me like an operation CSX might hand off to some shortline, as (other than maybe Domino?), it doesn't look like much unit train customers there.The area has been gradually deindustrializing the last 40 years,.scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:58 pm How much does CSX use Riverside, these days? It looks like it's mainly MARC now.Bombardier took over from CSX for MARC at the Riverside yard, but that's only maybe 30% of the yard. Also, there's a CSX yard even further in than that, the Locus Point Industrial Area... and guess where the Domino Sugar Plant is at?
The only section I'd see having to possibly lay down a second track would be along the route after the carrollton viaduct, past the Montgomery building, with catenary. And then, it will need to be tall enough to clear doublestacks going into howard street. With is doable, SEPTA already does so.
RRspatch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:00 am Actually I would suggest four tracking the line between "Hanson" and "Winans" first with "Carroll" and "Bridge" reconfigured for MARC on the outside tracks and Amtrak on the two inside tracks. With the exception of the Anacostia flood zone work the two track section isn't that big of a deal when you consider how many trains Amtrak and NJT run between "A" interlocking and "Hudson" which is a similar distance.I agree wholeheartedly with this proposal. The existing plan to extend the four track segment south from WINANS to a new interlocking in Harmans is a great first step to realize this goal. Four-tracking all the way down to HANSON would also allow the outside northbound track (Track A?) to be built specifically to support the CSX freight traffic to the Pope’s Creek Sub.
TheOneKEA wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:54 pm I agree wholeheartedly with this proposal. The existing plan to extend the four track segment south from WINANS to a new interlocking in Harmans is a great first step to realize this goal. Four-tracking all the way down to HANSON would also allow the outside northbound track (Track A?) to be built specifically to support the CSX freight traffic to the Pope’s Creek Sub.In the environmental filings for the four-track WINANS-to-GROVE project (BWI major rebuild), the tracks would be renumbered 1 through 4, where Track A would be 1.
The right-of-way is mostly clear, but Seabrook and Bowie State stations would need to be partially or fully rebuilt, with the pedestrian underpass at Bowie State extended or replaced outright. Odenton station would also need to be partially rebuilt. A brand new interlocking may also be needed south of the Sullivan Maintenance Facility to complement GROVE and to provide another place for trains to switch from the outer tracks to the inner tracks and vice versa. Lastly, the old kink in Track 1 north of the Patuxent River will probably need to be eliminated for good.