North Broad Station-logic and necessity of stops

Based on my limited (12 years) of riding the Doylestown line I am curious as to the necessity of so many trains(longer routes) stopping at North Broad. I rarely sees a passenger either exit or enter the train. I realize the station fills a gap on Broad Street but l don't see the need for so many trains stopping.

Additionally, has ridership improved significantly to justify the massive expenditures at Wayne Junction?

R5Dailyrider wrote:...Additionally, has ridership improved significantly to justify the massive expenditures at Wayne Junction?

If you are referring to the station rebuild, passenger count wasn't a factor. The station was falling apart.

Wasn't the cost paid for by a tiger grant or something similar? I know it was expensive but I was under the impression septa didn't pay for it out of pocket.

Also the logic of the Doylestown and Norristown trains stopping does make sense, Norristown because there is no other connecting service, Doylestown because it connects with all other reading side routes (as long as the other routes train isn't express), they even have an evening train that calls at N Broad and expresses to Glenside. As a Doylestown rider it makes that ride long and slow.

Total Project Cost shown as $18 Million. Not small potatoes. Some "grant" but majority is debt service out of SEPTA.

North Broad is akin to the ugly stepdaughter of the Reading side. I can see the potential and the history of the station, but it sure is a lightly used stop in today's day and age. Somebody's train has to stop there, but I agree the Doylestown line seems long enough already. I'd like to see a Glenside local hit it (turn at Glenside) and all the other lines run express from Jenkintown to/from Temple. (Or Wayne Junction for the CHE). Obviously with the car shortage, this isn't feasible.
(edit for typo)

I always thought it had to do with the number of stops an R-route train makes (made?) in the CCP zone. If I recall correctly, both North Broad and North Philadelphia used to be in the CCP zone before SEPTA realigned the fare bands. That means there were 7 stations available in CCP - North Broad, Temple, Market East, Suburban, 30th Street, University City, North Philadelphia. Each R-route would stop at 5 of the 7:

R1 Glenside-Airport: Temple, ME, Suburban, 30th, U-City
R2 Warminster-Newark DE: Temple, ME, Suburban, 30th, U-City
R3 West Trenton-Elwyn: Temple, ME, Suburban, 30th, U-City
R5 Doylestown-Thorndale: NB St, Temple, ME, Suburban, 30th
R6 Norristown-30th (Cynwyd): NB St, Temple, ME, Suburban, 30th
R7 Chestnut Hill East-Trenton: Temple, ME, Suburban, 30th, NPH
R8 Fox Chase-Chestnut Hill West: Temple, ME, Suburban, 30th, NPH

My guess is since the elimination of the R-routes it would depend on where a train is being through-routed whether or not it calls at North Broad.

North Broad might get better use had it had better access. The outbound platform requires the use of a long ramp from Lehigh Ave and is the only way out, which could be dangerous in certain situations.

North Broad is also the victim of the chicken and egg game. Does it have light ridership because no one uses it, or is ridership light because no trains stop there?

Post edited by an Admin.

It's been a long way down for North broad which used to have center island platforms. Without those platforms only certain trains can stop there. It's got a lot of long term potential so it's worth keeping alive. Honestly I would use it if more trains stopped there but with only once an hour service I don't want to risk missing a train.

bikentransit wrote:North Broad is also the victim of the chicken and egg game. Does it have light ridership because no one uses it, or is ridership light because no trains stop there?

I'm not sure it's entirely chicken-and-egg--lots of other stations with similar levels of service have higher ridership. Most trains from two different lines stop there. The problem is that the service isn't terribly useful. If you're going from North Philly to CC, the BSL will be faster, far more frequent, and cheaper (unless you're going somewhere close to Jefferson, 30th St, or UC, in which case the BSL and a walk or BSL to MFL all of those except maybe faster). So the station is useful really only for either reverse commuters (are there any major employment centers along the Doylestown or Norristown route besides Conshohocken?), for which the schedule is not ideal, or for people transferring, which would make a circuitous route and for which the schedule is even worse.

Personally I think the better use would be to combine it with North Philadelphia, which would make transferring between the BSL, Trenton Line, the Reading side, and Amtrak much easier (which opens up some faster 2-seat rides than are available currently), and would make the station more attractive to use in the first place. But, that's probably be expensive, and I'm not sure there are very many pairs of cities between the Reading side and the PRR side that would be possible with transfers at North Philly that have a lot of ridership potential.

Moving the North Broad platforms to North Philadelphia would make a lot of sense. North Philadelphia has a rather unusual demand pattern - most riders at the station are arriving on the CHW Line and changing to Trenton Line or Amtrak trains for destinations in NJ and NY, and they're a particularly influential bunch. Moving the North Broad platforms to the stretch between Glenwood and the NEC would allow that sort of transfer for other lines.

Edited by an Admin

Now, combining North Broad and North Philly is an excellent idea. Unfortunately the location and geometry make that next to impossible. Having them combined and possibly shifting some things on the BSL would be extremely useful though. Most North Broad patrons are probably going to jobs in Norristown or Lansdale which is probably why those two lines were selected to stop there, aside from reasons already mentioned. Given the ridership, it was smart that the island platforms were eliminated. But once an hour is still poor service for an urban station.

If I recall correctly, the Doylestown line got stations ADDED to their route,

Edited by an Admin

What are you on about, the Doylestown line hasn't had any stations cut, unless you are referring to stations that were removed when Septa took over from conrail, if that's the case then we were indeed on separate pages, my reference to added stations was that the Doylestown line was given two more stations to stop at in recent timetable changes.

Post edited by an Admin

The EGE wrote:Moving the North Broad platforms to North Philadelphia would make a lot of sense. North Philadelphia has a rather unusual demand pattern - most riders at the station are arriving on the CHW Line and changing to Trenton Line or Amtrak trains for destinations in NJ and NY, and they're a particularly influential bunch. Moving the North Broad platforms to the stretch between Glenwood and the NEC would allow that sort of transfer for other lines.

EGE and Everyone:

The current North Broad RDG trunk station was constructed during Railworks in 1992-93.

The track configuration and infrastructure as it now stands will not allow a relocation of the current North Broad station to be closer to North Philadelphia...

An underground concourse once connected the two stations in the past which was closed primarily because of personal safety factors...

More recently the underpass between CHW Line platforms and the two main PHN platforms was closed for that same reason.
The replacement is a pedestrian crossing over both CHW tracks at PHN.

Many transferring CHW riders now travel to 30th Street to connect with Amtrak trains there instead of at PHN noting how few Amtrak trains stop at PHN.

Passengers transferring at North Philadelphia are primarily between trains of the CHW and Trenton Lines - perhaps some purchase SEPTA/NJT
combined commutation tickets for points north of TRE...

MACTRAXX

Admin note...

Housekeeping complete, re-opened.

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