No pics from Metra platforms (says UP)...

TRAINS Magazine

Union Pacific bans photography from Chicago Metra station platforms

August 16, 2006

Union Pacific Railroadhas announced that with the recent increase in security concerns across the
United States, it will no longer allow photography of trains from Metra
station platforms in the Chicago area. Metra is the region's commuter-train
agency.

"We recognize that railroad fans can be our eyes and ears out there," said
UP spokesman Mark Davis. "But we live in different times. The number one
concern for Union Pacific is the safety of everyone. Right now, and since
9/11, security has been heightened and increased. This is part of that
effort." Davis added that, "This stuff about UP not liking railfans is not
true. But we have to be as safe and secure as we can."

Metra was pulled into the photography-rights controversy last year when two
railroad fans were detained by Morton Grove, Ill., municipal police and
Metra police while photographing trains from the public train-boarding
platforms at town's Metra station. That route, the Milwaukee District North
Line, is owned by Metra. Union Pacific owns the property on its three
commuter routes, and UP employees operate the trains under contract to
Metra.

After the glare of publicity enveloped the Motron Grove incident, Metra
recanted its position and publicly reversed its stance, saying it would
allow photography of trains from its stations.

Metra spokesman Tom Miller today told Trains News Wire that as long as
people are in areas accessible to the public, are acting in a safe manner,
and are willing to provide identification if asked by authorities, that
Metra has no problem with them taking photos. "But as far as the UP policy,
we have no comment on that," Miller said.

UP might be on shaky legal ground if it attempts to enforce its ban.
Attorney Walter Zullig, who did legal work for New York's Metro North
Commuter Railroad, today told Trains News Wire, "There is nothing in statute
that prohibits photography from public areas. There is no federal law on
this, and nothing from Homeland Security. The U.S. Supreme Court considers
photography a part of free speech protected under the First Amendment."

In a column that will appear in the October 2006 issue of TRAINS Magazine,
Zullig writes that research has not turned up any state law on the subject
in existence anywhere. According to Zullig, railfans have the legal and
constitutional right to photograph whatever they please from locations "open
to the public," which would seem to include Metra and other
passenger-train-boarding platforms.

Maryland's MTA rapid-transit and commuter-train system has a photo ban on
MARC commuter trains, which run on CSX and Amtrak trackage, as well as the
Baltimore subway and light-rail systems, but Zullig believes there is no
legal basis for the ban and is attempting to get MTA to explain its legal
basis for it.

Both the New York City Transit Agency, which operates the city's vast subway
system, and New Jersey Transit, which operates commuter trains and bus and
trolley lines throughout the Garden State, attempted to adopt photography
bans but withdrew their proposals after a flood of negative comments and
threatened lawuits on constitutional grounds.

Public financial support of transit and commuter facilities may or may not
have any bearing on the legality of such bans. In the Union Pacific
instance, UP, a private railroad, contracts with Metra, a public entity, to
provide the commuter-train service, on three routes out of Chicago. Metra
uses tax money to fund the service and maintain the station facilities,
including the train-boarding platforms.

If I recall, we had a similar thread about a year ago, regarding photography in CPT, and UPRR said it won't be happening on their property, of which the platform is.

doepack wrote:TRAINS Magazine

Union Pacific bans photography from Chicago Metra station platforms

Maryland's MTA rapid-transit and commuter-train system has a photo ban on
MARC commuter trains, which run on CSX and Amtrak trackage, as well as the
Baltimore subway and light-rail systems, but Zullig believes there is no
legal basis for the ban and is attempting to get MTA to explain its legal
basis for it.

.

That is news to me, and my hundreds of MARC photos.

no problem Union Pacific i'll just take my pictures from the grass area next to the platform.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Metra own the stations and platforms, which UP has no say over?

JLJ061 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Metra own the stations and platforms, which UP has no say over?

Metra owns the stations and platforms, but UP owns the land on which they reside; they're public locations on private property.

What I fear most is that railfan tourists visiting the area could have their vacations ruined should they run afoul of this ridiculously flawed policy. UP's arrogance shines through again (sigh)...

doepack wrote:What I fear most is that railfan tourists visiting the area could have their vacations ruined should they run afoul of this ridiculously flawed policy. UP's arrogance shines through again (sigh)...

Metra should have bought 2/3rds of the UP lines when they had the chance. Those lines seem to lag behind the rest of the system as far as customer service goes (BNSF's contracted operations, however, I've never heard complaints about). It would be nice if they would stop running the commuter lines like a freight operation (What are they going to do? Ban camera phones from the property?) but that's unlikely to happen. And god help those UP police if the 844 or 3985 ever come to town. That'll be one hell of a busy day chasing people away...

Sounds like I should do some civil disobedience to protect my rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

Simply put, no one is going to abide by UP's new "policy," which infringes my 1st amendment rights. Let them try, and see how far they get. If I get stopped, don't bother me none. If a ticket agent yells at me, won't bother me. Time to start carrying your ticket stubs on you. Show that you support Metra and their policy of photo taking from a platform. Also, use areas near platforms. That'll work even better. If you can find a spot near, but off of a platform, where the ticket agent can see you, that would be fun. Poor agent would have to just sit there while you take photos and not do anything, because you aren't on the platform. Oh well. Like I said, let UP try. I love though, how the spokesperson contradicted himself when he said that UP knows railfans are the eyes and ears of the railroad, yet they're trying to keep it as safe as possible. Pftttttttt. His speechwriter should be fired for that.

agreed Metraf40c607.. I am pretty sure the the Elmhurst station is owned by the city, atleast the city takes care of it. My tax money go to support it so i feel that that i have the right to take pictures there. If not, I ll stand on the edge of the platform on the grass and take pictures there...We all need to make sure the stupid UP doesnt get away with this.

I agree with the above, however - remember the ticket agents and others are trying to make a living and support a spouse/children, so don't do anything that would get them fired or suspended. They didn't make the rules, the folks in Omaha did.

I feel sorry for those living in Metraland. Doesn't make any sense. I hope that NJT or any of the other NYC area railroads do that agani. UP shouldn't be doing what they are doing now. There are so many great platforms in and around CHItown to fan from. The Metra platforms are owned by Metra if I'm not mistaken, even though the right of way might not be. I believe that not all Metra lines are owned by Uncle Peter.

After seeing all the controversy this rightly stirred up on a number of forums, I've been checking the websites of UP and Metra. As of this morning, nothing. Same for the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times websites.

This morning I phoned Metra and spoke first to John Gottlieb, Metra's Manager of Special Services. Among other duties, his office handles requests for commercial photography at Metra facilities. He says he has heard nothing about any such ban and that non-commercial photography is fine at Metra stations, as long the photographer
(1) Stays in a public access area.
(2) Stays at least 15 feet from the right of way.
and (3) Carries proper identification and is prepared to present same to
any law enforcement officer.
All commercial photography requires a permit from Mr. Gottlieb's office.

Since Mr. Gottlieb's office is not directly involved in the law enforcement/security functions of Metra, he referred me to the office of Chief James Sanford of the Metra Police Department. I spoke with Commander Dorsey there and he confirmed everything Mr. Gottlieb had said. Cmdr. Dorsey said the Metra PD had not heard anything from the UP about such a "ban" and that it was unlikely that the UP would try to impose one without informing Metra PD.

Both gentlemen were very helpful and gave permission to be quoted in this post.

Looks like at best, this "ban" is a rumor, at worst, a hoax.

Good to hear, but didn't someone here get asked to leave CPT after taking pictures?

I didn't even know that there was a ban for photography on the Mta system in B'more. The last time that I photographed a light rail was in 1998.
Anyway, back to Metra, UP shouldn't even bother photographers who are shooting from platforms that aren't even owned by them. While I have never been to the Chicago area, there are many great places to photograph the trains. the "Racetrack" right a way is part of the jurisdiction of BNSF. UP can do what it wants. However, they will get plenty of negative press for their actions.