New Inspection Train / Geometry Vehicle

I've heard that MN is looking to replace its "Inspection Train". Word has it that the two Pheobe Snow cars (MN1 & MN2) will soon be taken out of service along with the MN3 center coach and be replaced with two Bombardier Cab Control Cars that were used on the West of Hudson service. MN is also planning on using one of the recently rebuilt "Bomb" coaches as a center car. I'm guessing that all three cars will be heavily modified for "Inspection Train" service. I'd be curious to see what it will look like.

Thats bullspit! Nothing can replace those cars.......but maybe LIRR can get them and make their own inspection train !!!



lirr415-Peter

The whole idea of an inspection train on a public owned railroad is "bullspit"!!! Political people and executives want to check out a train line, let them get on at the station and ride with everone else. Cost of maintaining and operating a special train for bigwig's is a waste taxpayer money.

-it would be nice if MTA would give or "lend" the Phoebe Snow cars to one of the two LIRR museums, at Oyster Bay or Riverhead. They both have plans for eventual excursion service. They both are strapped for cash. They both need a few more usable authentic LIRR historic coaches for display and future use.
-Haven't METRO NORTH and CDOT done comparable placement of surplus cars with the Connecticut rail museums?
-How about it, O Management?

Roger Wines

Making a multi purpose inspection train has been my idea for years.
Get a Cab car with a glass front at firemans side, Theater type seating in first 1/4 of car a big conference table in middle of car with flat screen TV's and camera's wired to cab end. provide two bathrooms at rear 1/4 of car.
Second car a coach with club seating and a 1/4 of car assigned to Geometry equipment .
Now the same train can be used for Inspection train/ training train/ geometry train or private train rentals.
And advantage is, you only need one locomotive and in emergencies can run this consist as part of a regular train to replace cab car.

If the cars are to be retired, the only appropriate place for them to go is the Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society, which is well on its way towards actually operating former Erie Lackawanna passenger equipment in excursion service on former home rails. As I understand it, MNR senior management has already received a request for such a donation.

While the LIRR may have some historical claim to the cars, they rightfully belong back on Erie Lackawanna rails.

Jim

Maybrook Fan has a valid point, but what does get accomplished on an Inspection Train is more than just getting out and seeing the Right of Way.

But once again, Erie Lackawana is right. They 1 & 2 should go back to an Erie concern.

Half of the museum outfits do not have a decent place to even put such
cars much less operate them. They would be much better placed in a
location on or close to Metro-North territory. My idea would be either
Danbury or Thomaston. Both places today have decent places to keep
these cars and Thomaston has a good place as well to operate them.
I do not think it is a good idea to send them somewhere where they will
be neglected, collect rust, be vandalized and just go downhill.
They were never Erie cars to begine with, they came from the
Lackawanna long before the Erie Lackawanna merger.
Noel Weaver

I don't think the Danbury Railway Museum would be a good option for the two Phoebe Snow observation cars. They have so much stuff already crammed into that small yard and they don't run any fan trips. They would just sit there and rust away like so many other pieces of rail history.

I don't think it'll be a difficult to find a good home for two such valuable cars.

It's a simple no-brainer--- the ELDCPS group is the appropriate home for these two. They have a PROVEN record of accomplishment with two cars, and have a PLAN for restoration, interpretation and operation in a historically-appropriate area for their equipment. There are few organizations in the rail preservation field as focused on a sustainable project, with broad appeal to both the foaming fan and the general public (which is where 96% of the money and support comes from). The ELDCPS is certainly a group worthy of support from a wide range of the rail enthusiast community.

As for the two LI museums (Oyster Bay and Riverhead-Greenport) needing "a few more usable authentic LIRR historic coaches for display and future use", the Phoebe Snow Tavern-Lounge cars are not coaches; there are plenty of "usable authentic LIRR historic coaches" around in the "aftermarket". Frankly, they have little to do with the LIRR. Yes, I know about their short careers on the LIRR-- I helped organize and operate the 1979 "Rail and Sail" excursions on the LIC-Greenport trains. And, if anyone thinks the LIRR is going to allow excursions on their railroad with any equipment besides current operating LIRR stuff, guess again.

MNCR has a proven record in appropriate disposition of historic equipment-- that is, seeing that things go to proper homes.

Noel Weaver wrote:Half of the museum outfits do not have a decent place to even put such
cars much less operate them. They would be much better placed in a
location on or close to Metro-North territory. My idea would be either
Danbury or Thomaston. Both places today have decent places to keep
these cars and Thomaston has a good place as well to operate them.
I do not think it is a good idea to send them somewhere where they will
be neglected, collect rust, be vandalized and just go downhill.
They were never Erie cars to begine with, they came from the
Lackawanna long before the Erie Lackawanna merger.
Noel Weaver

The Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society (http://www.eldcps.org) is dedicated to the Erie Lackawanna - that includes the Erie, the Lackawanna, and the Erie Lackawanna. They have an agreement to store their equipment (currently, an ex-DL&W Diner, an ex-Erie Diner, and an ex-NKP sleeper that often through-lined with DL&W) at Steamtown in Scranton, which is DL&W territory. They also have access to the Erie E8 #833, which would have pulled EL trains after the merger, and is currently operable and has pulled excursions recently. The addition of at least one of the ex-Phoebe Snow Tavern Lounge Observation cars to their fleet is very appropriate, and doesn't amount to letting it sit and rust away in a yard somewhere - which is what it would do in Danbury or Thomaston. Frankly, I can't think of a worse fate than donating them to a museum, when the ELDCPS is a viable and worthy alternative.

I suggest you take a look at their web site - you may be impressed by their work to date.

Jim

So wait a second... where did we hear that Metro-North wants to retire the inspection train? Or is this just sandhouse talk?

If I can rebut Maybrook's opinion about the train- I see no problem with Metro-North or any other railroad operating an inspection fleet. Why can't they have a train to allow executives to make inspection runs and occasionally entertain the politicians that could possibly affect the operating budget contributions? It's part of doing business, and it's a grand old railroad tradition I'm glad Metro-North carries on.

If they are indeed looking to retire the cars, I hope at least one is sold to ELDCPS... what I wouldn't give to see that car at the bumping block in Hoboken in proper gray-and-maroon! Maybe one could go to Danbury, but it would just sit around in that crammed yard.

So let's find out- where did this talk come from?

Take it to the bank Otto. A new inspection train will be in service within 24 months!!!

The problem with the Phoebe Snow cars is that it takes two engines to operate when the train goes to POK, Waterbury or Wassaic due to the runaround. A push-pull train, as Dutch suggests, would make much more sense from an operation perspective. Many times the train is reviewing projects that do not require traveling to the end of a line or branch. With a push-pull train, a change of direction could be made at any location. The only downside would be expense of the required FRA inspections of the cab car. That would be offset by not needing two car inspectors to ride the train to perform the uncoupling/coupling duties on the runaround trips (MN trainmen do not handle the HEP lines).

The Inspection cars face other problems too. like brake incompatibility and parts for trucks.
By using standard Bombardier cars the maintenance will be less of expense because of parts compatibility, less wheel trueing, less new wheelsets etc.
Any part used on MN1 -MN2 - MN3 has to be manufactured in house, from handrails to door parts.
The current Phoebe Snow cars have old trucks with just Disk brakes
The ex NYC centercar MN-3 has clasp brakes, running such a short train with two different type brakes is asking for wheel problems.
Now lets hope they put ACSES on new cars so they are fully compatible for west of Hudson Trips.
As Penn Central knows many a new engineer put some embarising flatspots on those cars.