• Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

Moderators: MEC407, NHN503

  by BandA
Mr Google shows a middle of the night trip from TD Garden to Concord, NH via I-93 takes 1:06 for 67.6 miles. So 1:25 3-stop "limited" in 1960 is very similar.

BON to Lowell is :32 for 30 miles by car (I-93/128/US-3). The first trains are :43 inbound and :45 outbound by Lowell Line with 6 stops. BON to Concord via Lowell by car is ... 1:26! for 82 miles.
  by NHV 669
mbrproductions wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:52 pm And is this timing because of low speeds or is the ROW too curvy?
Would most likely be the track, given the current speeds look like a mix of 10/25, and slower the further north you go.
  by arthur d.
Lots of factors to consider. Curvy track, larger and busier yards..
  by shepaug
Argue Argue.... Around here the reason people take trains is highway grid lock..SW Connecticut I-95 to New York is a parking lot every day and often most the day.

To Concord sounds nice. BUT how many need it ??

Railroads in NH. I get frustrated by any abandonment. If tax supported a rail line to almost every town in USA. They pay for all the roads. But as to NH it just seems the state chronic has had no interest in anything rail and add to that Guilford. Tracks all gone never to come back. Think the p[population would go for a beautiful bike trail going to rail ?

Vote for me I will reduce your taxes !!!
  by BandA
Which came first, deindustrialization or Guilford abandonments?

There is a slight trend in industrial / food companies, they start up in NH, but then they need more infrastructure and move to MA.
  by newpylong
They kinda went hand in hand. As carloads began to drop off in the mid 80s Guilford adopted the draconian labor rules which in turn caused crew shortages due to the strikes which in turn accelerated the drop of carloads, many of which never to return. This obviously effected branch lines. As far as abandonments, many of those were the results of rationalization when the B&M, MEC and D&H were under one umbrella and would have happened regardless of deindustrialization.

As for speeds on the Northern, they were historically slow due to geography pre-Guilford. It's all 5 and 10 MPH today all the way down to NC and then it's 25 into Lowell where it then obviously is 50-79 down into Boston over Keolis.
  by FatNoah
For more detail than you could ever want about the state of things in the early 70's, grab a couple hours and your favorite beverage and peruse all off the documents scanned on the B&M RR Historical Society website, starting in 1970. I presume these were discussions centered around what to keep, sell, or abandon as a result of the B&M bankruptcy. There are a lot of details about proposed abandonment, traffic levels & customers, etc. The White Mountain Branch in particular has lots of details to tease out if one has time.

  by shepaug
All I do is look at things un-scientific. Have to ask the customers.

In Connecticut one saw customers vanish. Many places the customers still exist. Scientific ? The cost to service them ? Most all Guilford's lines saw everything reduce to 10 mph ? I heard Guilford never lost a penny as to overall profits for owners. No maintenance = 10 mph = abandonment Satisfied Customers ? I recall one of last freight runs to Torrington Ct. The cars derailed when trying to put them on a siding.

Pick up new customers ? I think Connecticut is way behind as to even weight limits. Bridge north of Hartford ? Un-Scientific...look at size of freight cars modern times ?

Kind of curious about the new Berkshire Eastern I think it is. Don't think a website yet. I think they operate Hartford/Waterbury Ct. One thing is an ancient tunnel in Terryville. Track now at 10 mph ? The lonely trash train would keep on derailing and scared neighboring towns.



An oddity if one believes such but that tunnel has gone down as haunted for many many decades. Same reports. Dead workman I guess. Even the last video an odd sound there ? Never seen anything strange but if I did would be freaked out. For some reason humans have reported this stuff over the centuries.
  by newpylong
The Berkshire and Eastern is not due to take over Pan Am Southern operations until the end of the year.
  by shepaug
I ran across an old BM Timetable and thought it was interesting as to New Hampshire passenger routes.


A .pdf file uploaded to Microsoft One Drive. Hope the link works.

Guilford I heard on financial news that they never lost one penny on their rail operations. Besides all the lines abandoned (how do you reduce to permit such?) most all the rest is reduced to 10 mph. If you were a shipper ?

Oddly many short line railroads pick up customers. I just see Connecticut and many past customers are still there but no rail.
  by arthur d.
newpylong wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:41 pm The Berkshire and Eastern is not due to take over Pan Am Southern operations until the end of the year.
Is this going to be a real company, meaning will it have its own employees, equipment and physical plant, or will CSX slap some magnetic signs with B&E reporting marks on their equipment and continue to run the line like PAS did?
  by MEC407
CSX won't be involved at all, aside from in the PAS board room. The STB filings state quite clearly that operations, maintenance, and marketing of the PAS lines will be contracted out to the Pittsburg & Shawmut Railroad, which will be using Berkshire & Eastern Railroad as its DBA ("doing business as") name. Pittsburg & Shawmut is a subsidiary of Buffalo & Pittsburgh, and B&P is owned by Genesee & Wyoming, Inc.
  by arthur d.
Who gets ownership of the real estate?
  by MEC407
CSX inherited Pan Am's 50% ownership of PAS. So PAS is now owned 50% by NS and 50% by CSX.
  by MRY
Not sure what some of this has to do w/NH but there is discussion on a FB page ("Pemi Branch") about hauling salt to Campton NH.

From planning board minutes 3/15/22:
John Pearson Salt Distribution: John Person has a proposal to develop and distribute salt by rail cars. He intends to lease a piece of land from the Sanborns on Owl Street. John brought in a display to show the Board precisely what he meant. John stated he would be putting up a fabric shed 100 x 140 with paved asphalt on the bottom. It would be on the north end of the property. The Board had several questions for John and explained what he would need to do for the process. The Board doesn't think that the Sanborn is solely zoned commercial. Jade will look into it, speak with the Board, and then get back to John. John said it could be anywhere from 5-15 cars a week on the railroad. A conveyor will unload the salt. John said his customer base would range from the local contractors to municipalities. The Board reiterated for John to check the zoning and the setbacks from the river. The Board invited John back in for a site plan review.