New Dinky to Nassau Street

Dcell wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:37 am

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:23 pm Well, if keeping the existing system in place is going to be futile then why not do a light rail conversion? Wouldn’t be too terribly difficult in regards to current infrastructure.

The railroad union will never ever allow member jobs to be lost -- light rail conversion has been talked about since the 1990s and zip has happened. You will see an electric bi-level train on the Dinky line in the future.

That makes no sense. 3 cars? You'd walk half the route by just going from end of the train to the other.

I'm confused by this though:

The cost of that project is estimated at $100 million; the as-is option is estimated to cost $15 million for maintenance of existing equipment.

What's the timeframe for these numbers? Is $15 million yearly, meaning it starts costing more money after 7 years?

3 car sets is the operational spec for the Multi Level EMU.

I know. that's why i'm saying it's ludicrous to be running these things on the Dinky line.

Let's see in 2042 if there is light rail. I sincerely doubt it, based on Princeton's history is resisting any changes to the Dinky. And Dinky jobs are held by the most senior engineers and conductors.

Anyone know how old the Dinky mile marker post is in the center of image?
And is it 47 miles to Newark or NYC?

https://imgur.com/a/TpmUi6L

planespotting wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:38 pm Anyone know how old the Dinky mile marker post is in the center of image?
And is it 47 miles to Newark or NYC?

https://imgur.com/a/TpmUi6L

PS - That is MP 47 measured from Jersey City-Exchange Place from PRR days...
This MP is on the NEC just east of Princeton Junction Station...
That is a cast-iron MP with the 47 numerals raised on the top...
It is exactly 1.3 miles further to Penn Station New York...48.3 to be exact to NYP...

The PJ&B has MP 1, 2 and 3 (past end of track - the Dinky route is 2.8 miles long) from PJC...
MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:14 pm

planespotting wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:38 pm Anyone know how old the Dinky mile marker post is in the center of image?
And is it 47 miles to Newark or NYC?

https://imgur.com/a/TpmUi6L

PS - That is MP 47 measured from Jersey City-Exchange Place from PRR days...
This MP is on the NEC just east of Princeton Junction Station...
That is a cast-iron MP with the 47 numerals raised on the top...
It is exactly 1.3 miles further to Penn Station New York...48.3 to be exact to NYP...

The PJ&B has MP 1, 2 and 3 (past end of track - the Dinky route is 2.8 miles long) from PJC...
MACTRAXX

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Cast-iron sure lasts a while. If you look closely the "47" was first written horizontal and then faded out and then they appear to have re-written vertically.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:14 pm The PJ&B has MP 1, 2 and 3 (past end of track - the Dinky route is 2.8 miles long) from PJC...
MACTRAXX

When built in the 1860's, the Dinky originally ran to the foot of Blair Arch on the Princeton campus - about 0.3 or 0.4 mile further than now. In some bushes on campus near the old ROW is an old milepost that say "3" or "3.0" on it I think (not 100% sure about the 3) , although I have been told it is not exactly where it originally was . The line was cut back at least once and I possibly twice, as campus expanded over the years, before the recent cutback a few years ago.
Jim S

Cut back twice, yes.

The final summary report for the Princetion Transitway is now available.

Princeton Transitway Report-Final Fall 2022

Not exactly up to snuff on NJT labor contracts and whatnot but isn't NJT short-staffed thus requiring no loss of union jobs if the line were to be converted? Or would the objection be to the loss of the positions (multiple crews) as union positions?

Sorry, was replying to what I thought was the last post but it was page 18.

Nice study. Thank you, Jersey taxpayers, for it.

Okay, I like getting hate mail sooo....

It would seem to me, as an avid fan of all modes of rail transit mind you, that it is ridiculous to include light rail if we're just going to pave the branch. If we were going to serve Downtown with light rail as well, then yes, I'd be all on board. But to simply include light rail for a portion of the line that could just as easily be served by more BRT seems like a waste of money.

I wonder if they're serious about real improvements or if this is a lot of fluff and doublespeak to justify downgrading to a simple bus service because NJ Transit want to retire the Arrow IIIs without a suitable replacement.

I don't believe they're serious about light rail, even though that would be the better option, but are just making it look like they tried when in the end they just want the train gone and replaced with a bus.

Some reasons for my cynicism:

To have an isolated light rail system for a 2.7 mile spur makes no sense. The vehicle would either be diesel like the Trenton - Camden River Line (not very green to replace an electric train) or electrified on a new and incompatible system, rather than using the existing catenary. Plus the connection to the NEC would likely have to be at least temporarily severed to comply with FRA laws, since light rail is not crash compliant. (The River Line passes parked heavy rail rolling stock, so this may not be an issue. Separate operational windows for light rail and overnight freight are how they get around FRA crash regs.)

This largely stems from NJ Transit's (imo dumb) decision to not order off the shelf modern rolling stock but instead always come up with some weird custom designed science experiment. In this case, they want to retire the remaining Arrow IIIs (long overdue) and replace them with this, which can only be run in 3 car sets. They could have ordered a single level EMU like the Silverliner V when it was still in production for SEPTA and Denver RTD, but that would have made too much sense I guess.

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/it ... i-contract

SV is single-level equipment and has had its share of issues. It would also be a new set of equipment to train people on and maintain.

There are literally entire airlines who staked their success on unified fleets, but sure, NJT wanting to do something similar just means that they always come up "with some weird custom designed science experiment".