Discussion related to commuter rail and rapid transit operations in the Chicago area including the South Shore Line, Metra Rail, and Chicago Transit Authority.

Moderators: JamesT4, metraRI

  by metrarider
 
MikeF wrote:There's more variety than ever on the north side of Union Station! The next train could have any combination of 7200's, 8200's, 7400's, 8400's and 8500's.

I agree, we don't need a toilet in every car -- but people will complain either way.

I don't suspect any of this will affect 553, since that car is not owned by Metra.
If the car can load Wheelchairs, then it needs a bathroom under the ADA regs, so the wheelchairs can access it. If Metra elimated bathrooms altogether they could avoid this restriction, but I don't imagine that would fly. What I'm not sure about is if they really needed to add wheelchair access to each car as opposed to just one or two per trainset.

The biggest downside is the reduction in seating, makes my regular already crowded train even more crowded.

I just wish they'd break up the walls of stainless steel with at least a stripe of paint.

  by MikeF
 
metrarider wrote:If the car can load Wheelchairs, then it needs a bathroom under the ADA regs, so the wheelchairs can access it.
Are you sure of that? It's my understanding that if the car can load wheelchairs and it has a lavatory, then said lavatory must be wheelchair-accessible. But, the car does not necessarily have to have a lavatory. Take, for example, the South Shore's 100-series cars, which are capable of handling wheelchairs but do not have toilets. The cars are clearly marked with "no toilet" decals outside the center doors, so that wheelchair users will know to board another car if they need to use the lavatory.

  by Tadman
 
Hey I just rode the new Sumitomo's on the Rock a few days ago, what a comfy ride and great view from those oversize windows. As a longtime South Shore rider, I figured the equipment would work out pretty nice - their Sumitomo cars look nice and ride well, even compared to long distance equipment like Horizon cars.

  by metraRI
 
8274 made a come back today taking the place of 8564, not sure how long that will last. RI also has 8557 and 8556 as the rear two cars of a train, which I thought was unusual.
Last edited by metraRI on Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

  by AmtrakFan
 
Scotty Burkhardt wrote:these cars suck! every train looks the same now, i miss going up to the north end of union station and never knowing what the next train will have. now its all futureistic mono-looking fluted steel with big windows and a big silver void where the bathroom is, crap (if that made any sence)

I still say we do what VRE does, all the cabs are ADA with bathrooms and the rest of the coaches have seats, (it worked on the UP for a few years)

i STILL just dont understand the logic for having those riduculous bathrooms in every car. if i were on the metra board and i wanted to waste space on something, MAKE IT PRODUCTIVE!! DAMN YOU!! make every car a bar car, that would be useful

in any case, because metra is so fixed on making every train set look boring. will this have any impact on 553 because its painted? (god forbid)
I hate the new cars they look ugly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get rite of the Bathrooms in evey car also put Vending Machines instead of the Bathrooms. Do they ever use the Bar Cars?

AmtrakFan

  by metraRI
 
RI and MILW do have refreshment cars that are usually open rush hours only.

  by AmtrakFan
 
metraRI wrote:RI and MILW do have refreshment cars that are usually open rush hours only.
I know the CNW had them when my Dad use to ride then in the 70's. That's when they allowed Smoking on the Trains.

AmtrakFan

  by metrarider
 
MikeF wrote:
metrarider wrote:If the car can load Wheelchairs, then it needs a bathroom under the ADA regs, so the wheelchairs can access it.
Are you sure of that? It's my understanding that if the car can load wheelchairs and it has a lavatory, then said lavatory must be wheelchair-accessible. But, the car does not necessarily have to have a lavatory. Take, for example, the South Shore's 100-series cars, which are capable of handling wheelchairs but do not have toilets. The cars are clearly marked with "no toilet" decals outside the center doors, so that wheelchair users will know to board another car if they need to use the lavatory.
No I'm not completely sure of that, but that's my understanding. not being a south shore rider, perhaps you can tell me how old the 100 series are - cause that might be a factor in which regulations applied to them

  by MikeF
 
The South Shore's 100-series cars were built in 2000 and meet all current FRA and ADA regulations.

I don't believe the law states anywhere that wheelchair-accessible cars must have restrooms. In fact, 49 CFR 38.107, which discusses the requirements for restrooms aboard railcars, begins with: "If a restroom is provided for the general public, it shall be designed so as to allow a person using a wheelchair or mobility aid to enter and use such restroom. ..." Many of the commuter lines out east operate ADA-compliant equipment without toilets.

To bring this back to Metra, how many seats could we gain by eliminating the lavatory on an otherwise ADA-compliant car? My guess is somewhere between 12 and 18.

  by metrarider
 
MikeF wrote:The South Shore's 100-series cars were built in 2000 and meet all current FRA and ADA regulations.

I don't believe the law states anywhere that wheelchair-accessible cars must have restrooms. In fact, 49 CFR 38.107, which discusses the requirements for restrooms aboard railcars, begins with: "If a restroom is provided for the general public, it shall be designed so as to allow a person using a wheelchair or mobility aid to enter and use such restroom. ..." Many of the commuter lines out east operate ADA-compliant equipment without toilets.

To bring this back to Metra, how many seats could we gain by eliminating the lavatory on an otherwise ADA-compliant car? My guess is somewhere between 12 and 18.
After rereading your post, my understanding is the same as yours, <b>if</b> the car has a bathroom, and wheelchair access, then it must provide wheelchair access to the bathroom.

Probably in the desire for a unified car type and the corresponding flexibility (i.e. not having to worry if a trainset has the ADA compliant cars) Metra simply ordered them all the same way so as to remove an avenue of inadvertant non compliance with ADA regulations.

I would concur with your seating guess, I suppose Metra is going to have to lengthen consists where possible to make up for the seating shortfall, as other commuter agencies have done.

  by Scotty Burkhardt
 
an 7400,6000, 8400 or 8500 puts between 12-16 passangers on their feet depending on if its a cab or coach, say you have a seven car train of the ADA series compared to a set of pullmans. the ADA series 7 car trainset will sit 84 to 112 less people. remember that Union Pacific runs up to 11 cars on their consists, factor that in, (thats 176 people displaced). basically every line that is going to use these cars (UP, NCS and BNSF) is going to need at 1-2 extra trains to make room for displaced passangers. or about 12 extra trains in/out of chicago give or take just to make up for room, not to expand

  by metraRI
 
RI is still getting more 8500's as 8574 ran tonight. Some trains are starting to run with the rear two cars being 8500's like most MILW trains. So far it looks like RI has 8547-8574

  by MikeF
 
What's the latest word on the 8500's? Is the Rock Island now fully equipped? When will the BNSF start receiving them?

  by metraRI
 
The 8500's are up to at least 8575. 8576, 8577, and possibly 8578 should have been delivered with 8575, but I have not seen them yet. RI now has 28 (8547-8575) 8500's, 5 more than RI needs.

  by Scotty Burkhardt
 
It seems like the new cars were coming in like crazy, and now, its just slowed down to a trickle. As previously stated, The ADA cars seat less, and ive noticed that RI has been running more 9 car trains.
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