New California Locomotive Emissions Rules

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/railroad ... 55385.html

Railroad industry sues to block new locomotive pollution rules in California

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — The railroad industry on Friday sued to block new environmental rules in California, arguing they would force the premature retirement of about 25,000 diesel-powered locomotives across the country long before their zero-emission counterparts are ready to take their place.
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In a lawsuit filed in federal court, the industry says the technology for zero-emission locomotives hasn't been sufficiently tested and won't be ready to carry the load of delivering more than 30 million carloads of freight nationwide each year.

The lawsuit asks a judge to declare the California Air Resources Board does not have the authority to issue these rules. The trade groups say that only the federal government can regulate railroads because it is an interconnected industry that crosses state lines. They note that more than 500 companies all share the 180,000 miles (289,682 kilometers) of track across 49 states, Canada and Mexico.
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Earlier in the discussion we noted the San Diego & Arizona Eastern. There does not appear to be much left of this road:

https://youtu.be/xv2yWI0edOs

The Journal reports how all Class I's apparently have come to accept that use of Diesel locomotives has an "expiration date".

With California having enacted an expiration date, other environmentally conscious states will surely follow suit.

Fair Use:

Railroad operators like to say that trains are greener than trucks when it comes to moving goods, pointing out that one railcar can haul three to four times as much as a truck, and one freight train can remove hundreds of trucks from the highways.

Although the freight-rail industry is responsible for less than 2% of transportation-related greenhouse-gas emissions in the U.S., rail carriers—like the rest of the transportation industry—are under pressure to reduce those emissions, much of which are produced by diesel-electric locomotives.

The title of this Journal editorial would lead one to think "It's all about trucking". It's not; It's all about trains:

Fair Use:

California’s climate planners aren’t trying merely to extend their electric-vehicle mandate nationwide. Now they’re moving to banish diesel locomotives across all 50 states. Where’s Amtrak Joe Biden when you need him?

The U.S. House last week held a hearing on the California Air Resources Board’s (CARB) plan that would ban locomotives that are 23 years or older from running in the state after 2029, pending approval from the Environmental Protection Agency. Passenger trains would also have to operate in a “zero emission” configuration by 2030 and long-distance freight trains by 2035.

There are at least two biq questions here....

Are CARB's actions extra-territorial and affecting interstate commerce?

If Chevron Deference falls at SCOTUS, is it within the EPA's scope to let a state agency be making decisions that affect interstate commerce?

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 11:34 pm Are CARB's actions extra-territorial and affecting interstate commerce?

Good point indeed, Mr. Olesen.

Afaik the courts have consistently held that only the Federal government can regulate railroad operations except when safety considerations justify a local override, as when New York City prohibited steam locomotives in Manhattan long ago. Quite a stretch to make that apply here.

Air quality is a local safety issue.

The article summary says limit idling to 30 minutes. What happens in areas that go below freezing?

BandA wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:16 pm Air quality is a local safety issue.

The article summary says limit idling to 30 minutes. What happens in areas that go below freezing?

Not only is air quality a local safety issue, so is sound (especially continuous sound).

NS has installed ground power for electric engine heating in some (many?) locations to avoid the need to idle engines for warmth.

Wabtec sells automatic engine start and stop systems to help automate this process (and maybe start an engine that has been off periodically to avoid it getting too cold) for fitting into existing Wabtec/GE/EMD locomotives and I'd be surprised if newer locomotives didn't ship from the factory with this automation built in.

At least the MBTA has installed shore power at layover yards to heat engines rather than leave a yardful idling, which is kinda perfect: layover yards full of idling engines really did create a local emissions problem. So the problem and the solution found each other.

I'd say that if a loco is in service and on a siding for more than 30 minutes IN COLD WEATHER it should be allowed to idle. But how much truly COLD weather does California have?

Arlington wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:59 am I'd say that if a loco is in service and on a siding for more than 30 minutes IN COLD WEATHER it should be allowed to idle. But how much truly COLD weather does California have?

Paging the Donner Party......

It seems as if the political winds swing like a pendulum. I’m not saying that air pollution isn’t a real issue. It could be mitigated in several ways, such as an emphasis on more intermodal. My point is that some of the left leaning policies may be overturned before they are implemented. There has to eventually be pushback. Let’s see how the next few elections turn out.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:05 am This is a subtler regulation than headlines suggest:

• Mainline freight rules take effect in 2035, while industrial, switchers, and passenger locomotive rules are in 2030.
• Tier 4 is compliant, but must be rebuilt not less than every 23 years.

Wait... so this isn't a zero emissions regulation, they're just saying they have to be Tier 4 compliant? So this is essentially a giant nothingburger.

The railroads will just shift their fleets around so that all of the non-Tier 4 units are out of California by the implementation date.

BandA wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:16 pmAir quality is a local safety issue.

The article summary says limit idling to 30 minutes. What happens in areas that go below freezing?

I don't think there is a lot of locomotive storage in the areas of California that go below freezing. For local switchers or MOW equipment in the mountains, they could either put those little heating boilers on them that burn diesel fuel (but much less of it) to keep them from freezing, or store them in super insulated heated buildings (thinking rotaries and other specialized stuff).

ElectricTraction wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 3:54 pm The railroads will just shift their fleets around so that all of the non-Tier 4 units are out of California by the implementation date.

Which sounds great, if you're willing to ignore all the operators who don't operate, let alone own any Tier 4 units. The case of the Napa Wine train is a perfect example, they were credited towards the purchase of a new compliant locomotive; in the process, they destroyed a pair of active, operating units.

NHV 669 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 8:12 amWhich sounds great, if you're willing to ignore all the operators who don't operate, let alone own any Tier 4 units. The case of the Napa Wine train is a perfect example, they were credited towards the purchase of a new compliant locomotive; in the process, they destroyed a pair of active, operating units.

I thought Napa was running on CNG or something anyway? I was referring to the Class I's, it had sounded like they'd be forced to electrify, now I'm hearing they just need to shuffle units around so that only Tier 4 diesels go into California... which is, quite frankly, a snooze fest and a nothingberger. There will need to be some efforts to help shortlines pay for newer, cleaner locomotives. Some of the smaller ones with shorter routes could probably go to battery-electric, as the significant limitations of battery-electric locomotives aren't an issue for small shortlines that don't cover a large distance.