• MOM Rail Service

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

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  by lensovet
 
Isn't the AC line single-tracked and used to be double-tracked? That's probably why.
No amount of double-tracking is going to save the line from its incredibly circuitous path and the fact that it lands outside downtown. Having to cross over the entire NEC doesn't help either. Lindenwold to 30th St takes 45 minutes on NJT (with just two intermediate stops) versus 27 minutes on PATCO (with over 5x the number of stops!), and the latter will give you a one-seat ride to more destinations.
  by CJPat
 
JohnFromJersey wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:42 pm
EDIT: I keep mentioning a Toms River/Winslow/Philly connection due to the issues with the Farmingdale-Jamesburg-Trenton-Philly one. Theoretically speaking the latter would be faster, but with how dense the area is and with the pushback from local communities the former wouldn't be a bad idea (outside of costs) either.
@JohnFromJersey - you keep mentioning the Farmingdale-Jamesburg-Trenton-Philly run as being a dense area? Definitely, it has political pushback as that was demonstrated under Corzine. But dense? Exactly what do you consider constitutes dense? The most built up area the line passes thru would be just several blocks of Freehold as it cuts through downtown (definitely a slow spot, but it will also be approaching a station). But leading up to it and then after it as it passes through Matawan, Englishtown, Monroe, Jamesburg, Dayton and out to the Monmouth Jnctn area is hardly dense. It is rural with some light housing all the way through.

Downtown Jamesburg, which, politically, is the strongest pushback, is very light density for all of 7-8 blocks and goes back to rural again. I'd be more worried about finding a cow or horse on the tracks.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
I'm assuming that many of us have heard about recent developments about D&D doing phases of track work to the Southern Secondary and Freehold Industrial Track, such as reconnecting the two, and taking over operations from Conrail.
This means:
-Farmingdale to Red Bank will probably not have any freight use anymore, since FIT and SOUS will probably be merged into one line.
-A private company will probably be doing the bulk of the track work/upgrades for the lines included in proposed MOM route

Is there a chance that the "phases" for D&D's grants from the state could revive hopes for a MOM line? I know it's been well recorded that NJT hates freight on their lines, but D&D/C&D has done freight and track work operations for NJT in the past. If D&D handles most of the upgrades to the SOUS and FIT, it would most likely reduce costs for NJT's MOM creation.
  by ApproachMedium
 
I wonder if they would go and chase after some of the customers that were once between red bank and farmingdale? Currently i think theres none other than brick recycling by the collingswood flea market but you had Extech building materials, earle base, whatever was across from the flea market at one point which is currently defunct.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
ApproachMedium wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:23 pm I wonder if they would go and chase after some of the customers that were once between red bank and farmingdale? Currently i think theres none other than brick recycling by the collingswood flea market but you had Extech building materials, earle base, whatever was across from the flea market at one point which is currently defunct.
What's across from the Auction was recently signed to a Tile place. Good chance we will see service to them maybe.
Earle had a lot of rail deliveries back in the day, but I doubt that they would ship sensitive materials on the state of those tracks and with how frequent trains currently are.
The site of Gold's Lumber could be up for grabs for something, and the industrial park in Farmingdale used to have rail access, but I don't think there's anything in there that would need rail usage.

And of course, there's Stern's trailers, but I don't think they'd ever get a car; I don't think they are shipping in and out trailers very far. Maybe I'm wrong.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Recent derailment on the Southern in Tinton Falls will probably all but ensure that Red Bank-Farmingdale won't be used once the FIT-SOUS connection is finished. I wonder what this 15-ish-mile section going inactive means for MOM
  by CJPat
 
JohnFromJersey wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:58 am Recent derailment on the Southern in Tinton Falls will probably all but ensure that Red Bank-Farmingdale won't be used once the FIT-SOUS connection is finished. I wonder what this 15-ish-mile section going inactive means for MOM
John, although derailments are always cause for review regarding the use of a section of rail, it of itself does not define anything. You understand the connection between the FIT and SOUS is not a first time thing. I believe it was SA-35 that used to come down the FIT and drill some on the SOUS for decades. It never killed off the Red Bank Connection (probably because it adds extra miles to the delivery route for the customers north of Farmingdale, which means added cost).

They could definitely be shaking up how the customers are managed with this re-connection, but i wouldn't go so far as say it "all but ensure that Red Bank-Farmingdale won't be used ".

Maybe I am wrong.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
CJPat wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:15 am
JohnFromJersey wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:58 am Recent derailment on the Southern in Tinton Falls will probably all but ensure that Red Bank-Farmingdale won't be used once the FIT-SOUS connection is finished. I wonder what this 15-ish-mile section going inactive means for MOM
John, although derailments are always cause for review regarding the use of a section of rail, it of itself does not define anything. You understand the connection between the FIT and SOUS is not a first time thing. I believe it was SA-35 that used to come down the FIT and drill some on the SOUS for decades. It never killed off the Red Bank Connection (probably because it adds extra miles to the delivery route for the customers north of Farmingdale, which means added cost).

They could definitely be shaking up how the customers are managed with this re-connection, but i wouldn't go so far as say it "all but ensure that Red Bank-Farmingdale won't be used ".

Maybe I am wrong.
Was not aware that the FIT hits connection to the SOUS active for a long time, I remember reading from another thread that the last time a train from FIT used the connection to SOUS was back in the 80's or 90's, for a very large load that couldn't go on the Coastline and certainly couldn't go by truck.

FIT-SOUS connection is being done so they can run Plate F cars on the Southern, which would mean they would definitely get a lot more customers. I've also heard that it additionally takes freight off much of the Coastline. There's a bridge in Eatontown on the Southern that can't handle Plate F cars going underneath it, and then there's a bridge by Cheesequake that can't handle Plate F going over it on the Coastline.

I don't think much freight will run north of Farmingdale once they get the wye or whatever they want in
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Wild thought, but if Farmingdale-Red Bank doesn't get used after the Freehold-Farmingdale reconnection, would NJT be interested in maybe having a Farmingdale or Freehold-Red Bank connection?
  by CJPat
 
I believe that running from Farmingdale to Freehold to Matawan (Red Bank is not on this connection route) would be contested by the NIMBYs in Marlboro even more than the Jamesburg/Monroe NIMBYs. You literally have the big McMansions built along the ROW with the ROW directly in their backyards. It would only serve NYC bound passengers.

Running from Farmingdale to Red Bank does not provide many additional commuter passengers than only running the existing service from Bayhead to Red Bank already provides, although it does allow for the inclusion of Lakehurst and Lakewood. The run west towards Monmouth Junction opens up New Brunswick & connections south towards Trenton.

I was always curious if NJT only went as far south as Lakewood (last significant population center before Toms River), would Toms River even bother with it at all? Lakehurst itself may provide minor ridership, but might be considered close enough to draw Toms River people. Obviously, I would like to see the rail brought back to Toms River, but I wonder what the travel time to Red Bank would be, even with required track improvements.

What is the bus run time from Toms river Park & Ride up to NYC?
  by andrewjw
 
NJT route 319 bus is scheduled for 1h 35m from toms river park and ride to port authority. Currently the fastest Bay Head to Penn time is 2 hr 6 minutes.
Last edited by nomis on Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Removed unnecessary quote
  by Dcell
 
Isn't this segment proposed for a trail and bike path by the county parks commission?
JohnFromJersey wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:37 pm Wild thought, but if Farmingdale-Red Bank doesn't get used after the Freehold-Farmingdale reconnection, would NJT be interested in maybe having a Farmingdale or Freehold-Red Bank connection?
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Dcell wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:38 am
Info on this? I won't be shocked since once the Freehold-Farmingdale connection is done, Red Bank-Farmingdale most likely won't be used; there are a few customers along this route that MIGHT use rail service again (since they used it in the past as evident by rail sidings next to them, as Ewing Lawnscape Supply in Tinton Falls has one).

At the same time, Earle could be negatively impacted by this, and I know NJT uses the spur from Red Bank as a yard sometimes.
Last edited by nomis on Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Trimmed quote
  by JohnFromJersey
 
CJPat wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:25 pm
As Andrew said, it's about 1.5 hours from Toms River to Port Authority; that's not including traffic and you STILL haven't crossed over into NYC yet, I'm assuming that Port Authority means you have to take PATH trains.

Toms River would certainly use the trains, the Park and Ride there is right next to the former ROW which, for the most part, is still usable, though some bridges when you approach the Park and Ride will need to be built. A Toms River-Farmingdale-Jamesburg MOM route would allow Toms River residents to take the train to either NYC or Philly (or any cities in between), since Toms River is on the border of what I'd consider "South Jersey" where they usually work more in Philly.
Last edited by nomis on Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Trimmed quote
  by CJPat
 
Thank You Andrew for the answer to the bus to Port authority question as well as the Bayhead to NYC question.

My personal thought on the Red Bank to Farmingdale connection is that it won't be abandoned by freight. I think I previously mentioned that for all the years prior to 2006(?), the connection from Freehold to Farmingdale existed and SA-35 used to make that run. If it was more beneficial, Conrail wouldn't have "abandoned" the connection and settled on the Red Bank to Farmingdale connection unless they thought it was a better timed and cheaper operation to just come down thru Red Bank. Conrail clearly felt that Red Bank to Farmingdale was more advantageous to "maintain". I suspect that it is less mileage and faster to come down thru Red Bank.
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