Discussion related to commuter rail and rapid transit operations in the Chicago area including the South Shore Line, Metra Rail, and Chicago Transit Authority.

Moderators: metraRI, JamesT4

  by Tadman
 
The last E9's built, for MILW, had HEP generators, and I think there were the only first-gen units to have HEP. Where did they go? When Metra/RTA got serious around 1980, they weren't any older than the early F40's are today.

Also - did any CNW or RI units have HEP retro'd to handle bilevels, or were those self-sufficient?

  by byte
 
IRM has one, the 37A, which was part of the final (as-built with HEP) order. They also have the 33C, but that was converted to HEP by the Milwaukee shop people (it had previously been a long-distance unit from an earlier order).

  by Tadman
 
It strike me that these would be the prime E-units around now, but it seems they aren't too visible.
  by doepack
 
Tadman wrote:Also - did any CNW or RI units have HEP retro'd to handle bilevels, or were those self-sufficient?
In 1973, CNW bought 11 E units from UP; six of them (4 E9B's and 2 E8B's) eventually became known as the "Crandall Cabs" after an in-house rebuild which included the addition of HEP for commuter service. Those things were u-g-l-y...

  by Tadman
 
I believe the crandall cab was the inspiration for someone to invent the word "fugly".

If you don't know what that means, ask your dad. Or your big brother. Otto probably doesn't want us using the full words online, though.

  by PRRGuy
 
Are there any of those still around?

  by doepack
 
PRRGuy wrote:Are there any of those still around?
No. According to Paul Withers' book "Diesels of the CNW", Crandall units 501-505 were scrapped in 1985, and had been retired from CNW/RTA commuter service 2 years earlier, displaced by the newer F40PH's. Interestingly, the book doesn't list an "official" disposition for unit 506; it's presumed to have been scrapped, but it was never confirmed...
Tadman wrote:I believe the crandall cab was the inspiration for someone to invent the word "fugly"


Yep. They looked like the result of an experiment gone horribly wrong, sort of like bad plastic surgery. Believe me, I made up some words with similar meaning when I first saw those things, which cannot be repeated here. But then, such was the sorry state of CNW motive power in those days; and turning those secondhand "B" units into the Crandalls helped CNW acquire a second, "unoffical" meaning to its initials: Cheap, and Nothing Wasted...


Note to moderator: Hoping this isn't veering too far off the original topic...

  by bones
 
CNW's origanal E's and F's wereconverted to HEP. Also around 1969 CNW bought some E's from KCS and converted those as well. Rock Island and Burlington E's were also converted. The MILW E's were the only E's that came out of the factory with HEP.

  by MikeF
 
PRRGuy wrote:I do believe that Wisconsin & Southern has a former MILW E9 also.
That is true, but WSOR 10C is the former MILW 32A (built as MILW 202A), one of the earlier E9's used in intercity rather than commuter service and built with a steam generator rather than HEP.

  by SlowFreight
 
The North Western rotated a bunch of its F7's into the suburban pool and added HEP units back in the 1960's, along with some/most of their E8's. All the F's were eventually renumbered out of the 4000 series into the 400 series. Freight F's moved into the 200 series and fled to Iowa. The E's were mostly renumbered from the 5000 series to the 500 series, but a few were never done. Typically, at this point the shops blanked the number boards on the E units. The ex-KCS units were easy to spot because they had streamlined pilots. The road also used a few oddballs like F3B's in the 60's, but I don't believe they had more than one or two, and they never got HEP.

In the 60's, the Burlington units split their time between long-haul and dinky service, and none of them had HEP until they came back from Morrison-Knudsen in BN paint in the mid-70's. Prior to that, the Burlington gave every dinky a rebuilt heavyweight car with a HEP genset in the front--I think they were ex-combines with 6-wheel trucks, but I've not seen clear photos. These generator cars were still used long after the start of push-pull service.

As an aside, the original Burlington 700-series bilevels and all of the C&NW St. Louis cars (only C&NW bought from St. Louis) were equipped with steam heat as built, but when push-pull arrived, both roads converted these cars to HEP.

IIRC, the Rock only converted F7's, E8's, and the E6 for HEP--I know none of the E7's were converted, but they probably didn't convert all of the E8's since the Rockets--which lasted to 1978--were steam-heated and pulled by E8's.

Other useless facts: The Milwaukee E9's were--as the last E's built--the only ones delivered new with control stands. The Crandall units received their door assemblies from scrapped E7's and were delivered to the scoot pool with no soundproofing in the cab. One engineer I knew who used to run them said that THAT particular oversight was corrected very quickly.

It's odd that the North Western put any money at all into the suburban trains in the 70's when there was clearly no money in it, but by 1973--when the Crandalls arrived--the RTA had been created and subsidized funding was on the horizon, if not in the bank account. Meanwhile the North Western also bought a few E9A's from UP--I forget how many--but people obviously remember the Crandalls first. One of UP's executive E's came from this batch and was reacquired in full RTA paint before it was rebuilt, IIRC.
  by AC Fan
 
As a kid growing up in the 70's, I would only see F40C's on the MILW West Line. I only saw the HEP equipped MILW E9's on the North Line to Fox Lake. Were these commuter E9's ever used on the West Line to Elgin?

  by CNW5022-A519
 
508 to 511 were the other Up Es that the North Western bought, 511 was and is 949.
  by F40CFan
 
AC Fan wrote:As a kid growing up in the 70's, I would only see F40C's on the MILW West Line. I only saw the HEP equipped MILW E9's on the North Line to Fox Lake. Were these commuter E9's ever used on the West Line to Elgin?
I seem to remember at least once riding behind one on the West Line in the late 70s.

  by CNW5022-A519
 
PS to what I wrote befoe about 949 511 she looked great as 511 in both CNW and RTA paint and if memory serves me right the only CNW Passenger Unit ever to have a single top headlight.