• MBTA 1008 and 1013: Can They Be Saved?

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

  by mbrproductions
 
Even if they could get the MBTA to donate one of them, you'd have to spend money to make them road-worthy (if that's possible)
From what I have been told by the F40PH Preservation Society, it IS possible to make them not just road-worthy but operable, though it would come at a cost that they do not know and would likely have to secure using fundraiser money.
Now on something more substantial (ie-20 or 30+ miles each way)
Like I said, a place like Conway or the Cape Cod Central would be a great home for these two, both of these locations host trains that run for many miles, Conway has the Mountaineer, and the CCCR has their Dinner Train. An F40 would be the perfect locomotive to haul trains like these.
I can't think of a railroad museum in New England where an F40 would fit in.
I personally can see them fitting in with the old EMDs at Conway from the same era, same with the CCCR.
F40's are already represented in museums in CA, NC, and NV, and a few of those are operable or near operable.

They're also represented on tourist railroads like the GCRR and the WMRR.
Yes, but note how all of those places that you named, with the exception of one, are on the other side of the country, and even the one that isn't is all the way down in Maryland, which may be close enough for the die-hard F40 enthusiast living in New England, but not for most average enthusiasts.
I don't see anyone bending over backward for these two... those are scrap value prices, and they've been for sale for a while if I recall.
Well, it can't hurt anyone to try :-)

I think as long as they can be secured along with the funds to make them run again and haul tourist trains (whether up in NH or down the Cape), then it is worth trying to save at least one of them. :-D
  by GP40MC1118
 
Given the relationship that Mass Coastal/Cape Cod Central has with the MBTA/MDot, I think they would've snapped those units up (or even the ones that went to scrap). CCC is perfectly happy with the FL9s it has. They are somewhat of a "draw" down there, whereas the F40s...meh! And the noise factor between a FL9 and a F40. We didn't call them screamers for nothing.
  by eolesen
 

mbrproductions wrote: Yes, but note how all of those places that you named, with the exception of one, are on the other side of the country, and even the one that isn't is all the way down in Maryland, which may be close enough for the die-hard F40 enthusiast living in New England, but not for most average enthusiasts.
Dunno. I went to Paris to see the Eiffel Tower. Didn't ask someone to build one closer to me....
Well, it can't hurt anyone to try :-)

I think as long as they can be secured along with the funds to make them run again and haul tourist trains (whether up in NH or down the Cape), then it is worth trying to save at least one of them. :-D
You're looking at 50K+ to buy them, insure them and move them. That's before anything is spent to restore them.

Sorry, but this is a foamer dream.


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  by mbrproductions
 
Dunno. I went to Paris to see the Eiffel Tower. Didn't ask someone to build one closer to me....
Did you just compare seeing an f40 in a railroad Museum to seeing the Eiffel Tower? This analogy doesn't work because the Eiffel Tower is a famous monument that is one of the national symbols of one of the most famous and commonly romanticized nations in the world, of course people will come from all over the world to see that, and all else France has to offer, meanwhile an F40 is just a Locomotive, having one here that served an agency many people around here are familiar with in NE may attract local enthusiasts, most of whom will not be willing to drive hundreds or thousands of miles just to see a different one.
You're looking at 50K+ to buy them, insure them and move them. That's before anything is spent to restore them.
The current plan isn't to buy them but rather to have them donated, which if that is actually accomplished, that would knock 30K off the price tag immediately, the rest can be secured using donor money and even if it takes a while to get the money for the restoration, they can remain sitting hidden from the public eye until it is possible to restore them, much like some of the equipment at Seashore.
  by CRail
 
GP40MC1118 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:41 amCCC is perfectly happy with the FL9s it has. They are somewhat of a "draw" down there, whereas the F40s...meh! And the noise factor between a FL9 and a F40. We didn't call them screamers for nothing.
FL9s are preserved in abundance, and CCC is not a museum. Museums and tourist operations do not typically run with 480v HEP. They wouldn't "scream."
eolesen wrote:You're looking at 50K+ to buy them, insure them and move them. That's before anything is spent to restore them.

Sorry, but this is a foamer dream.
Or it's a legitimate concern for what is becoming a significant void in preserved railroad history. History is what existed, not what people who are alive today think is cool. In that regard, the lure of the FL9 is the "foamer dream." The more sophisticated historian understands things have to become old before they become classic.

A non-profit museum could acquire them for less than the $30k asking price, make the unit(s) road worthy with volunteer labor, and have transportation services discounted or donated by a carrier.

These units were the first standard face of the publicly owned passenger rail model both nationally and locally. Their significance is far greater than that of a one off unit that operated in a localized region.
  by eolesen
 
Whatever folks. Trying to save one or both these just because they ran for MBTA is a fools errand.

There are now at least a half dozen F40PHs preserved in addition to the 50 or 60 still in operation at agencies and another dozen in tourist operations, of which perhaps another half dozen to a dozen of those will likely wind up at museums.

At what point will enough be enough?



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  by CRail
 
I'm not sure what it is about discussing the historical significance of a locomotive that offends you. THREE FL9s are preserved at a single museum and you insist there's no case for one of these, ludicrous! We get it, you don't care for them. That's not how curatorial decisions are made.
  by ConstanceR46
 
FL9s also have the benefit of being engines that look "classic" but were retired recently enough they got hep
  by eolesen
 
CRail wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:24 pm I'm not sure what it is about discussing the historical significance of a locomotive that offends you. THREE FL9s are preserved at a single museum and you insist there's no case for one of these, ludicrous! We get it, you don't care for them. That's not how curatorial decisions are made.
Nothing offends me about actual preservation. What offends me is the people who think everything must be saved and don't want to hear about the costs beyond that. Anyone can start up a fund raiser, but that's about as far as these Facebook "preservation" groups ever seem to go.

Without a workable plan, more often than not these pieces of history wind up sitting outside rusting away, and the money "invested" in "preserving everything" gets wasted.

That's how a bunch of locomotives got stranded in Glenmont and will likely be scrapped. It's how a bunch of equipment at the Indiana Transportation Museum wound up scrapped. It's how a bunch of equipment at the Wichita Falls museum will likely be scrapped. Who knows how much of the Iowa Pacific fleet will be scrapped (totally different reasons, but a massive historical collection nevertheless)....

I'd rather see it go to responsible groups that know the pitfalls and have the knowledge & resourced to actually do preservation. My money goes to the IRM for that reason.
  by Red Wing
 
This group needs to get more professional before they can think of getting an engine: https://www.f40ph.org/ There is nothing about being a nonprofit, there is nothing about becoming a member, there is nothing about officers or bylaws or how to join. Even worse if I wanted to donate money there is no way to donate. They need to have a plan before they even talk to the T.
Maybe contacting the MEC 470 Project for advice since they appear to be a well run project for advice could help.
  by chrisf
 
Red Wing wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:19 pm This group needs to get more professional before they can think of getting an engine: https://www.f40ph.org/
They are actually an 11+ year old nonprofit corporation registered in Massachusetts, according to corporate filings. I’m not sure this link will keep working but the info is available from the secretary of state’s website: https://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/Co ... syfBXm0wc-
  by mbrproductions
 
https://www.facebook.com/66975934639578 ... Jx5pl/?d=n
"Write a letter to convince the MBTA to save an f40ph locomotive…

On second thought we will just encourage our followers to call and leave a message supporting our cause to the MBTA board of directors comment line. The number for that is (617) 222-3337
  by eolesen
 
One of the least impactful letters I've ever read. The words "community" and "history" being repeated twice or thrice in the same paragraph....

It reminded me of that VP Harris speech about "the importance and significance of the passage of time..." in which she repeated that phrase 4x in a 30 second span... of time... which is significant...and important.. as it passes....

Seriously, if you're going to approach and convince the MBTA Board, you might want to have someone else come up with a value statement that doesn't sound like a fifth grade book report by someone who didn't get past the cover but needed four paragraphs...

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