Maine Northern Railway (ex-MMA lines operated by EMR/NBSR)

CN9634 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:49 am The first pair of rebuilt NSBR units will arrive by end of the year meaning they will ship soon from Kentucky

Four of them finally made it to BVJ today.

Hello,
I have been following the discussion of the trains running between St. John and Brownville Juction (and Casey's excellent reports on the CP trains passing through Greenville, and I had a question:

On CP, the intermodal/manifest trains are 120 and 121, but what are their numbers on NBSR/EMR? I had heard the intermodal trains were going to be 907 and 908 and the manifest trains were going to be 207 and 208 (the latter moving most of the traffic to and from northern Maine).

Any clarification on train numbers would be greatly appreciated.
All the best,
Fritz

Same numbers on NBSR as well, Fritz.

Just to clarify, the train numbers on NBSR/EMR are 120/121 and 907/908. But it's not a simple matter of 120/121 being intermodal, and 907/908 being everything else.

When I was up there 2 weeks ago, things were a bit of a mess, between the extreme cold, lack of rested crews and radio problems contacting the dispatchers in Vermont. We saw a 121 on the 2nd which had outlawed the night before at Bancroft. It had as many woodchip gons as it did containers. The next day we picked up a 908 at Keag that was all junk, but the 907 that they met at McAdam was about half intermodal on the tail end.

Another 121 left Saint John Friday night, but only got as far as McAdam (border is no longer a 24 hr. operation) where we saw it tied down the next day. It also had some junk along with the intermodal.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/109788224 ... ed-public/

Geoff

They've been mostly a mix of regular cars and IM, since the ship calls went back to 1x a week. They may split off again once things pick back up, but as you mentioned, still having issues of crews to move the trains, and only so many hours to cross the border.

Makes no sense for customs to have limited service. International trade is big $ and could flow any time of day.

From Portland Press-Herald:

Wood-pellet mill, rail connection planned for Millinocket: https://www.pressherald.com/2022/11/21/ ... llinocket/

"The site of the former Great Northern paper mill in Millinocket could get new life producing industrial-grade wood pellets that would be sent by rail to Searsport for shipment and sale overseas, under a proposal announced Monday."

...

"But the project can’t go forward without upgraded, expanded rail infrastructure between the production facilities and the deep-water port.

The railway improvement project, led by the Maine Department of Transportation and NBM Railway, is scheduled to begin design and permitting in 2023, with construction anticipated to begin in 2024. Our Katahdin is partnering with the Maine DOT and others to submit a $56.8 million rail improvement application to the Federal Railroad Administration in support of the proposed development. "

...

"The 106.5-mile rail corridor between Millinocket and Searsport is owned by NBM Railways and Canadian Pacific Railway. The tracks would be used to transport pellets in specialty, bulk-transport rail cars from the One North campus in Millinocket to Sprague’s Searsport terminal for export to Europe."

Very interesting. I can see the rail infrastructure at the port itself needing an upgrade, but I'm puzzled what rail infrastructure in between Millinocket and Searsport would need upgraded to move a non-hazmat basic product like wood pellets. Maybe they want higher weight limits? Am curious to see what they apply for in the grant.

Strange..Bangor Daily News says there's a salmon farm planned for that mill: Salmon farm proposed at former Millinocket paper mill site. Are they planning on feeding the salmon with wood pellets?

F74265A wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:09 pm Very interesting. I can see the rail infrastructure at the port itself needing an upgrade, but I'm puzzled what rail infrastructure in between Millinocket and Searsport would need upgraded to move a non-hazmat basic product like wood pellets. Maybe they want higher weight limits? Am curious to see what they apply for in the grant.

The Millinocket Sub is a mess as is the Bangor Sub. CP didn't maintain the Millinocket Sub for anything higher than 10 MPH, even after CMQ footed the money to get it bumped up to 25 MPH. But I guess when you cut up the log cars and pull the switches to the other remaining customers, so you don't have to operate the line I guess its not a big deal.
The Bangor sub is pretty bad, which I wont be surprised if it gets sold to NBSR in the next year or two when they loose the haulage traffic. The whole line needs surfacing and ties as well as rail in spots. CP has depleted most of the MOW department which has been busy trying to keep the Moosehead stitched together (the worn out relay CP installed over the past couple of years has become a maintenance headache). Last I knew they were using some contractors to perform regular track patrols on the Bangor Sub.
It would be nice to see since all the customers on it have been complaining about poor service and increased rates. Maine Energy which owned a propane terminal at NMJ was forced to sell out to Dead River because just for a simple switch, CP increased the cost by 300% and Maine Energy couldn't afford it. Dead River has also had issues with CP's poor service record over the past few years. They have tainted several batches of LPG at Hampden because CP spotted oil cars at the racks and they unloaded them into the propane batch. Overall, the whole line would benefit if NBSR took it over.
I assume they will want to send six axle power to Searsport, so bridge and curve work will be required to facilitate that, since 6 axles aren't allowed beyond the south yard limits. Word on the street is that CP retracted the request to build the loop track at Searsport and I haven't seen the barrage of ads about the port in several years. So I would say once the STB overview was complete, CP ended the smoke in mirrors show.

Thanks for clarifying cp’s lack of investment in the property

When CP took over they marketed Searsport fairly aggressively and there was talk of using Searsport for Canadian grain or potash exports. Is it safe to say that idea is dead? or even that CP has given up on the Bangor sub entirely?

Hello,
Re-reading this thread reminded me of the following: EMRY has or is already buying the Millinocket Subdivision north of Brownville. Here is the first paragraph from the Federal Register (dated 21 Oct. 2022):

"Eastern Maine Railway Company (EMR), a Class III common carrier, has filed a verified notice of exemption under 49 CFR 1150.41 to acquire from the current owner and operator, Central Maine & Quebec Railway US Inc., d/b/a Canadian Pacific (CMQR), and to operate approximately 36.57 miles of a main line and approximately nine miles of branch line in Maine. The main line is between milepost 109 (Grindstone, Penobscot County, Me.) and milepost 72.43 (near Brownville in Piscataquis County, Me.). The branch lines consist of: (1) the East Millinocket branch line, from milepost 0.0 to milepost 7.72; and (2) the Millinocket branch line, from milepost 104.65 southward 1.2 miles to the end of the track. EMR will also acquire all other associated yard, spur, siding, and other track along the main line between milepost 109 and milepost 72.43.[1]"

Maybe this is the start of Irving expansion into Maine (and beyond). I never really did understand why CP so doggedly pursued purchase of CMQ.
Best,
Fritz

As a casual observer, the play for cmq appears to have been all about access to port Saint John, auto traffic to the maritimes, and getting whatever slice of Irving traffic they could onto the moosehead rather than building customers and traffic in Maine. I’d hoped cp would have done both.
Given that csx is rebuilding the MEC main line all the way to the NBSR interchange, csx’s purchase of pan am has similar goal

Cosakita18 wrote:When CP took over they marketed Searsport fairly aggressively and there was talk of using Searsport for Canadian grain or potash exports. Is it safe to say that idea is dead? or even that CP has given up on the Bangor sub entirely?

I know a certain individual will dispute what I said, since CP is one of his favorite railroads and they can do no wrong. But it certainly looks that way. Aside from the new tar transload for Northeast Paving at NMJ, CP has turned down a number of customers. ND wanted to start using the chip unloader at Lagrange and CP had no interest. Any time there is a crew shortage (which is now a normal thing, after most of the CMQ guys left for greener pastures across the river) crews are commonly pulled off the Bangor Sub. As of late CP has also relied on contractors to do patrols on the Bangor sub, since the CMQ MOW department has been depleted by Irving. Once the interchange traffic at NMJ is gone, I wouldn't be surprised if the Bangor Sub went down to 2 days a week. Have a night crew bring down G16 overnight, then the G13 crew does NMJ work during the day before heading to Searsport. Then the G16 crew recrews them at Searsport and does the local work and takes it back to NMJ and makes the pick up of the local traffic, with G13 taking them back to BVJ during the day. Considering all of the online customers are complaining about poor service for how high the rates are with the DOT and STB, if Irving got the Bangor Sub it would be a major help to the region. And with Irving getting their paper making chemicals and slurry from Searsport and where they will be exporting wood pellets soon, it would be one more part of their supply chain which could be integrated. Really it would be nice if they just bought all the way to Montreal. Even some of the CP guys are thinking the same thing, with the way that CP has reworked the operations. BVJ is a huge bottleneck these days. CP will switch and leave EMR out at the east end of the yard until they have less than a hour left and then want them to do tons of switching. There has also been issues with line ups being incorrect on CP, then when it gets to BVJ EMR has to resort the entire train so it is in the correct sequences. CP is also dropping the ball when it comes to telling EMR when they need a crew to be called. CP will give EMR a call when the east bound hits Boundary so a crew can then be on duty at BVJ two hours from that point. Then the EMR crew has to sit around for sometimes 6 hours until CP shows up.

US Customs at Vanceboro is a whole different story. US Customs refuses to send anyone new up here with the issues on the Mexican border. So the hours were cut back from 8 AM to 8 PM down to 8AM to 4 PM, and now they are being rolled back to 2 PM in the near future. Even then Irving is paying US Customs to staff the crossing as well as reimbursing them for the agents pay. Half the time they either time out at McAdam or Mattawamkeag.