Discussion related to commuter rail and rapid transit operations in the Chicago area including the South Shore Line, Metra Rail, and Chicago Transit Authority.

Moderators: metraRI, JamesT4

  by Tadman
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=16335

In the above link, there is a MILW Joe, second in consist, with windows blacked out - were these units made in married pairs?

PS I'm not sure where this should go, but there is no MILW area and CSS had joes.

  by byte
I don't know anything for sure, but here's my guess: The MILW Little Joes probably had one of the cabs blanked out, the intention being that they would be run in pairs, like you said. But either this didn't pan out like they originally intended, or it was only done done to some of the locomotives because there are plenty of pictures out there of single Little Joes pulling with diesels.

  by bratkinson
As the Joes got older on the Milwaukee, they turned many of them into 'B' units that could be MU'd with diesels.

The reason the Joes became 'B' units is their 30 notch (I think it was 30) controller, versus 8 on a diesel. The Milwaukee Road somehow cobbled together their own 'brand' of MU controls that an 8 notch diesel stand could 'control' the 30 notch electric stand. It could not be made to work the other way around. Hence, the Joes became 6000 HP "B" units in their final years.

Oh, and by the way, the South Shore's 3 Joes INTENTIONALLY did not have MU connections. Reason being is that to have more than one Little Joe (or even a 700 MU'd to one) would pull more power than the substations along the line could (can?) provide resulting in damaged to the substation. The Joes were also prevented from running with both pantagraphs up for the same reason. Perhaps 20 years ago, I was inside the sub at Michigan City while I was taking pictures there and was talking to the electrician working inside. All of a sudden, the concrete floor started shaking (about equal to a heavy freight going by at 50 MPH) and the two transformers started humming loudly. The electricians' response was that a passenger train must have just entered the section supplied by the substation. I cannot imagine what it must've felt/sounded like with a Joe under full load in there!
  by MR77100
In Donald R. Kaplan's DUNELAND ELECTRIC, the Little Joes' history is documented, but something confuses me. According to his book, the units were built to 5-foot-gauge standards for Russia. But when it became clear they would be sold elsewhere, the LAST SIX were build to standard gauge. I know the Milwaukee Road bought 17 of the 20 and South Shore got the other 3, so weren't all of them converted to standard gauge?

  by MikeF
Tadman wrote:I guess Paulista was bought by Fepasa
It was. Sao Paulo took over the CPEF in 1961 and in 1971 it became part of FEPASA.

Although all the pictures on the site to which you linked show the "Russas" in CPEF's blue paint, I believe they all wore FEPASA's red scheme later.

  by MR77100
So the Milwaukee got 12, the South Shore 3, and Brazil 5. How many of the Milwaukee units have been preserved? I know at least one has been preserved at Deer Lodge, Montana.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... &no=3&tt=4

  by Tadman
Here's a blue Paulista Joe:

I think there's a Joe in Cle Elum. Not sure about the rest. The museum in Green Bay has something MILW, but I think its a bipolar.

  by byte

That's the only Milwaukee unit that was saved. It's been sitting out in the open for years now and probably nowhere near operable, not to mention that the Milwaukee Little Joes were stripped of valauable parts after electric operations ended and they were retired. There was a movement a couple years ago to get one of those Brazilian LJs back to the states with the specific intent of restoring it to Milw. paint, probably because the one that's left would cost to much to restore and it would be taking away a local landmark from the town it's in. Funny the way 2/3 of the South Shore's LJs are preserved, one in mostly operable condition (the 803), while only one from the Milwaukee is left, and it will probably never roll again...

  by Hambone
Think a couple of em' had a steam generator for passenger service in that blanked out cab.
The Joe over in Deer Lodge was just restored a couple years ago, it looks beautiful.

  by MR77100
What is the status on the 802 at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore?

  by CSS&SB702
802 isn't at the B&O museum any more. It was moved several years ago to another museum in Pennsylvania. (Erie??)

  by MR77100
I am sure the Joes that went to Brazil were left in 5-foot gauge, since 5 feet is the gauge they use in Brazil. This gauge was used in Spain and Portugal, who both settled owned much of South America and built the railways. Does anyone know when the Paulista Joes were retired?

  by PRRGuy
Can either of the two joes be made to operate again? Also, can the caternary at IRM handle one?

  by byte
The 803 at IRM is operable, but has some leaks in the air system. Some of the catenary (mostly on the main line) can handle it, but until they can make the entire museum 100% pantograph-friendly, it won't be run. I would imagine that once the catenary is upgraded, the leaks in the air system would be fixed, and it would be operated.