Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

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  by GojiMet86
 
The final EIS report for LGA Access has been released:

https://www.lgaaccesseis.com/

https://www.lgaaccesseis.com/final-eis-document

The relevant N/W Astoria line alternatives and why they were rejected:

http://ricondoprojects.com/LGAAccess/fi ... 210312.pdf


2.6.3.1 ALTERNATIVE 8A: FROM ASTORIA BOULEVARD SUBWAY STATION: ELEVATED ABOVE ASTORIA BOULEVARD AND GRAND CENTRAL PARKWAY ALTERNATIVE

This alternative would have a material effect on major transportation facilities and major utilities. Specifically, this alternative would result in the need to modify the Hell Gate rail trestle, would result in a permanent reduction in service at the Astoria Boulevard Subway Station and the Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard Subway Station, would require the permanent closure of travel lanes on Astoria Boulevard and the GCP, and would affect existing major underground utility lines. Additionally, this alternative would disrupt peak-hour operation of the Amtrak Northeast Corridor and the N-W Lines during construction. As a result, this alternative would not be reasonable to construct and operate and was eliminated from further consideration.

2.6.3.2 ALTERNATIVE 8B: FROM ASTORIA-DITMARS BOULEVARD SUBWAY STATION: ELEVATED ABOVE 31ST STREET AND 19TH AVENUE ALTERNATIVE

This alternative would have a material effect on major transportation facilities and major utilities. Specifically, this alternative would result in the temporary closure of a portion of 31st Street and 19th Avenue and would affect existing major underground utility lines. Avoiding the material effect on major utilities would result in the permanent closure of travel lanes on a portion of 31st Street. As a result, this alternative would not be reasonable to construct and operate and was eliminated from further consideration.

2.6.3.3 ALTERNATIVE 8C: FROM ASTORIA-DITMARS BOULEVARD SUBWAY STATION: TUNNEL BENEATH 31ST STREET AND 19TH AVENUE ALTERNATIVE

This alternative would have a material effect on major transportation facilities and major utility lines. Specifically, this alternative would result in the permanent closure of a portion of 31st Street, would result in the permanent loss of parking on a portion of 31st Street, and would affect existing major underground utility lines. Additionally, this alternative would disrupt peak-hour subway, rail, and/or transit service during construction, including Amtrak Northeast Corridor service and the N-W Lines. As a result, this alternative would not be reasonable to construct and operate and was eliminated from further consideration.

2.6.3.4 ALTERNATIVE 8D: FROM ASTORIA-DITMARS BOULEVARD SUBWAY STATION: ELEVATED ABOVE DITMARS BOULEVARD AND GRAND CENTRAL PARKWAY ALTERNATIVE

To provide a general cost for subway construction, the average per mile cost of $976.0 million for elevated subways and $1.09 billion for underground subways was used. On this basis, the 1.89-mile elevated subway and the 0.61-mile underground subway in this alternative would cost approximately $2.51 billion, which is less than two and a half times the estimated $2.05 billion cost associated with the Port Authority’s proposed alternative. This alternative is on the N-W Lines and would provide reasonable access to all identified access points. This alternative would have a material effect on major transportation facilities and major utilities. Specifically, this alternative could disrupt peak-hour Amtrak Northeast Corridor service during construction, would result in the temporary closure of travel lanes on Ditmars Boulevard, and would result in the permanent shift of travel lanes and the permanent removal of parking lanes on Ditmars Boulevard. In addition, this alternative would affect existing major underground utility lines. Avoiding the material effect on major utilities would result in a permanent closure of a portion of Ditmars Boulevard. As a result, this alternative would not be reasonable to construct and operate and was eliminated from further consideration.
  by photobug56
 
I'm rather ignorant on what I just read above - PLUS - I just read that several weeks ago the FAA changed a ruling to the effect that the PA COULD use its passenger fee money to extend a subway line to the airport rather than have to build another extravaganza where one would would take the subway farther east past LGA, then transfer to the Taj Mahal train back west to LGA. One of the articles saw a possibility to connect both to GCT and to Penn if it connected to LIRR.
  by STrRedWolf
 
I think the main point of the Final EIS was "How cheap can we build this (in terms of money and operational cost)?" The intended routing was designated as the cheapest.

Betcha it'll get audited hard and heavy when Cuomo is kicked out of office. I was listening to the Governor Cuomo episode of Well There's Your Problem. It summarizes the problem: There's too many mafia-like dealings with Cuomo to give him a pass on anything. He'll get it done, but it'll be because of a ton of bribery "inside the family."
  by TurningOfTheWheel
 
Well There's Your Problem did a great job talking about the problems with Cuomo's transportation pet projects.
  by Jeff Smith
 
I've been seeing a lot of articles with critiques about it.

The main bone of contention seems to be that you're going out of your way by going farther east. That's very fair. Are they planning on any type of off-property parking, etc.? Someone earlier mentioned the possibility of moving rental car facilities out there as well. JFK does that, unsure about EWR. ATL has that as well.

Second is the fact that it's not a one-seat ride, with incompatible "orphan" rail tech. Now, it seems to work for JFK, although it may not be ideal. To me, the issue is the fact that a subway connection is definitely not conducive for getting to the airport. Commuter rail is a little easier, and faster, although perhaps planners should consider adding a car with some baggage capacity.

How do you solve that issue? Reports I've read have shown a deleterious effect on auto traffic as well as the NEC in some cases by extending various subway lines. I've noted upthread that the chances of an elevated line being built are slim to none, so extending the Astoria or Myrtle lines is not going to happen.

This leaves the E and F as the most logical candidates for a new "Train to the Plane" and extension, perhaps along Steinway St. I can't recall from the EIS if that route had an issue or not. I like Mr. Wolf's idea of an extension off of the Q as well.

Finally, the worst of the advocated plan would be the effect on the 7.

With the upcoming infrastructure stimulus, they need to plan this right, and work cooperatively with the PA. Period.
  by eolesen
 
FAA under the Trump Admin and Secty Chao did expand the use of PFC's for airport rail stations and lines.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/pfc/pfc_up ... policy.pdf

Given the number of terminal projects at LGA which are PFC funded, I'm not sure how much would actually be available to shift towards AirTrain, especially with the drop in traffic from the last year.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  by lpetrich
 
AOC rips Cuomo's proposed air train project
In a recent virtual town-hall meeting, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY-14) slammed the proposed AirTrain line:
“It is billions and billions and billions of dollars on an infrastructure project that doesn’t make logistical sense,” Ocasio-Cortez said during a virtual town hall meeting Friday night.
She started to draw the route on some paper, then stopped because she wasn't sure that her viewers could see her. She then drew the route in the air with her hands, going back and forth to demonstrate its detour route. Seems like she should ask her good friend Rep. Katie Porter for assistance.
“While I am a huge advocate of rail, I could not disagree more with the current Air Train project,” she said in response to constituents’ questions.

“The ultimate goal of any successful Air Train project is to help to be less reliant on cars to go to the airport. And that means making a faster and easier commute to LaGuardia, whether it’s from Midtown Manhattan or whether it’s from Queens or any other areas the air train would run through.

“The current proposed scope of the Air Train project is way more difficult and cumbersome than taking a car,” she said. “The actual plan for it doesn’t make sense.”
She said that it would be better to extending the existing N train from Astoria to LGA, or even have an express bus, rather than a detour past Citi Field.
“That is much easier than doing this whole thing, where you’re doing a whole merry-go-round [through] the entire borough of Queens just to get to LaGuardia airport,” the congresswoman said.
The article then referred to Documents show Port Authority fudged LGA AirTrain benefits
Ocasio-Cortez. referencing the documents, said the review process looked “really sketchy.”

“There were really a lot of things that were bypassed in due diligence in the authorization of this project,” the congresswoman said.
Last edited by lpetrich on Sun May 02, 2021 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by lpetrich
 
Documents show Port Authority fudged LGA AirTrain benefits
A federal review of Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s widely panned LaGuardia Airport AirTrain project accused officials of using “arbitrary” criteria to ensure the plan was chosen above all others — and concluded the railway would likely be slower than just driving there, newly revealed documents show.

...
Critics have long blasted the planned $2 billion elevated train’s bizarre “wrong-way” route — which goes past Citi Field instead of toward Manhattan — and have argued that it won’t actually be any faster than existing transit options.

In its own March 29, 2019, review, the FAA appears to have had the same concerns.
However, Gov. Andrew Cuomo continues to defend that project as an economic boost, though I did not find anything from him on the issue of its routing.
  by Pensyfan19
 
I'm assuming a more beneficial route would be an extension of the N/W (or maybe even the 7) to LGA since that would be a direct connection to subway service into Manhattan.
  by TurningOfTheWheel
 
The AirTrain project is so transparently corrupt that it's honestly a miracle some federal oversight body hasn't shut it down already. It makes no sense as a transit solution—it doesn't actually solve anything! Very funny to hear Cuomo talking about an economic boost from a project that nobody will use because it takes longer than driving or even the existing horrific transit options.

As usual, my recommendation is simple... just build a train! You've already got plenty of them!
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