Lackawanna Limited

elhts1 wrote:The cab signals on the Lackawanna also involved a signal whistle which the engineman had to acknowledge within a fixed time period or else the train would go into emergency.

Excellent explanation except for one thing -- the application is a penalty (controlled, service rate of brake pipe reduction), and not emergency (uncontrolled, intantaneous reduction of brake pipe).

I stand duly corrected. Indeed it is a penalty application. Two minutes in the box for not double checking the facts and going from memory.

How did the Lackawanna Limited compare to other trains of the time as far as speed, comfort, luxury and amenities? How did it compare to its successor, the Phoebe Snow?

This was the premier train for the DL&W. That being said it was steam powered with heavy weight equipment and was comparable to any other similar consist of the time. The Phoebe Snow was a diesel powered streamliner also comperable to similar equipped trains of the day. However, niether the LV nor Erie went that far: they refurbished older equipment, bought a few "modern" cars, and dieselized. Summary: heavy wieght and steam to diesel streamliner comparing oranges to apples; modern diesel and streamline trainset to refurbished equipment and diesels comparing oranges to tangerines.

henry6 wrote:The PHOEBE SNOW streamliner was introduced in November of '49 with F7's 801A,B,C-805A,B,C (although the unit designation A,B,C was later); E8's 809-820 came in 1950-51. Steam was Pocono, Hudsons, Pacifics. Yes, the LACKAWANNA LIMITED and THE PHOEBE SNOW were numbered 3 westbound and 6 eastbound although #1 may have been used earlier than the 40s. Best check Taber's books and King's ROUTE OF THE PHOEBE SNOW for better details than my memory.

I might be wrong, but I thought there was no actual train named "The Phoebe Snow" until the Erie Lackawanna era. The DL&W used the Phoebe Snow image for decades and was even The Route of Phoebe Snow, but no train carried the name until the early 1960s when it was instituted by E-L (and former DL&W) president William White.

I might be wrong, but I thought there was no actual train named "The Phoebe Snow" until the Erie Lackawanna era. The DL&W used the Phoebe Snow image for decades and was even The Route of Phoebe Snow, but no train carried the name until the early 1960s when it was instituted by E-L (and former DL&W) president William White.

No. The new streamlined train was called "Phoebe Snow" from its first run in 1949 through the end of the Lackawanna in 1960. It continued in the early EL years as a Hoboken-Buffalo train and then was dropped. After William White took over the failing EL he took the tavern lounge cars out of storage and renamed the "Erie Lackawanna Limited" to the "Phoebe Snow" as the "premier" Hoboken-Chicago train until its demise in November of 1966.

1966 was indeed a very sad year for EL fans.............Lets see, passenger service dropped on the Sussex Branch, Caldwell Branch, NY&GL to Wanaque and of course service to Washington on the DL&W....Also NYSW ended service to Butler...This, along with the cancellation of the Phoebe Snow and REA/mail service was indeed a pretty depressing occurance! I was born in 1978 so i missed it all..........

The Feb 1951 "Official Guide of the Railways" lists Westward No. 3 - The Phoebe Snow.....Eastward No. 6.....

What I did not know but see in this guide, is that the same train numbers (and Phoebe Snow designation) are shown for service to Syracuse from Hoboken and return.

3&6 were mainline numbers, Syr. branch trains were in the 1900 series. I have to look something else up tonite, so I'll check for the actual connecting numbers and get back tomorrow.

I checked last night and as I thought: Syracuse trains were 1900 series, therefore the Monday-Saturday Phoebe Snow connections at Binghamton were 1903 and 1906 with Sunday and Holiday connections by 1901 and 1902 (faster, no mail, no railway express). Since 3 & 6 were close in Binghamton the Syracuse trains served both.