Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by trainbrain
The E, F, and R services are all based out of Jamaica yard with the E running exclusively R160's, the R running almost exclusively R46's with a couple R160 sets appearing here and there, and the F running mostly R160's, but with some trains using R46 cars on a daily basis.

I believe the F and R share the R46 fleet, meaning that all the R46's that run on the F are also frequently used on the R. The same is true with the R160's that occasionally appear on the R. They are from the F's fleet. What is really puzzling is that while the F and R regularly run both equipment types, the E never uses R46's at all. The most recent footage I've seen of one on the E is from back when it was still mostly R32's. Is there any reason why the MTA doesn't ever want to run R46's on the E?
  by railfan365
i don't know the reason for this - but it's nothing new. From September 1979 - early 1981, the E had mostly R-10's while the F had mostly R-32's and some R-46's. Then it was R-46's on the F and R-32's on the E for a while.
  by rr503
I've heard it has to do with doors on the train. Out of the QB lines, the E generally gets most crowded, as it serves west midtown, the 53rd st corridor, QB express, and connects to the Lex. Both R160s and R46s have 4 doors/car, but because the 46s are 8 car trains vs 10, you're down 16 doors relative to a 160. They tried cycling 46s on the E back in the 2000s but along with the above door issues, they didn't hold up terribly well in the extremely high stress service that is QB express and when they broke down........

Soon however, with CBTC and the 211s, QB will be all NTTs.
  by trainbrain
Why would the R46's not hold up well under the high stress service? The F also gets very crowded and still runs R46's to this day.

I lived in Forest Hills when I was very young (99 to 03) and I remember I always loved riding the subways. Pretty much all R46's on the F and R32's on the E. I think Jamaica had all the R46's back then because the G, R, and V pretty much always ran them too. That was before they changed the G over to Coney Island and changed the equipment to R68's. Most of the F's fleet from back then is now on the A, as well as the cars from the V. When the G switched to Coney Island, they started using the R68's that were displaced off the N, Q, and W, so the R46's from the G are now on the F. There was a short period when the F ran exclusively R160's.
  by rr503
I don't know why to be honest, I think the decision had much more to do with the doors than the maintenance aspect (note the placement of 32s back in your time). I do remember a spate of broken doors though..
  by trainbrain
Does anyone have an idea as to how many R160's run on the R on a daily basis? Wikipedia shows how many cars are assigned to each service, but they only R46's as being the exclusive fleet on the R. I believe that their information is correct in terms of where equipment is officially assigned, but it doesn't account for fleet interchange between the F and R, similar to how the 2 and 5 share the same fleet.
  by GirlOnTheTrain
I don't believe Wikipedia's car assignments, considering they claimed the 42nd Street shuttle is serviced at Westchester and not Livonia until a few weeks ago...so personally I would take anything posted there pertaining to car assignments with a boulder of salt.
  by trainbrain
Back when the 6 was all R142A's they might've been serviced at Livonia. Since they changed the 6 to R62A's, it probably makes more sense to base them at Westchester.

Edit: I misread the above post thinking the 42nd Street Shuttle was actually based at Westchester. I know it isn't the case and Wikipedia reported false info for a while.
Last edited by trainbrain on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by GirlOnTheTrain
Fun fact: I know someone who routinely works at Livonia and can confirm that they are in fact still serviced there...in fact student train operators use the sets for yard practicals!

And I say "until a few weeks ago" because it was corrected at that time - not that they no longer do it. Just like someone seemed to think B & D trains were serviced at 38th Street Yard. *dies of laughter*
  by checkthedoorlight
Not only are B & D trains NOT serviced at 38 St yard, THEY DON'T EVEN LAY UP THERE, nor do any other revenue trains.

Also I was at Livonia Yard yesterday. Guess what was sitting on tracks 11 & 12......

As for the R, there is no exclusive train fleet for them. They share the fleet with the E and F. It all depends on how Jamaica Yard's Dispatcher feels like distributing them that day. The only rule is to NOT put R46's on the E, since the high ridership on that line requires the extra doors that the 60 ft cars have.
  by trainbrain
I misread GirlOnTheTrain's post thinking that the 42nd Street Shuttle was based at Westchester, not Livonia. I know it's based at Livonia now, and that has always been the case.

So back to Jamaica Yard, they have the R160 and R46 fleets not specifically assigned to anything, the E always runs R160's, and the F and R can use either type with the F mostly running R160's and the R mostly running R46's.

Thanks for all the info.
  by trainbrain
It'll be interesting to see where the R211's go when they start to enter service. The PR renderings all show them signed as A or R, which currently have the majority of R46's. That seems to imply that they will be directly replacing the 46's on the services they currently run on kind of like how the R179's will be assigned to the services currently using R32's and R42's. However, I read that they will be delivered with CBTC gear right out of the factory, and since it would be around the time that Queens Boulevard is getting CBTC, they might opt to send them all to Jamaica and have R160's run on the A until that line eventually requires them to have it installed.