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  • Is this a connector track btwn NYC and Rutland in Norwood?

  • Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.
Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #280571  by RussNelson
 
Take a look at this aerial photo: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.75897,-74.97034&z=16&t=O
See the faint line to the west of the center cross, curving away from the NYC (now CSX) yard in Norwood? I speculate that it used to connect the east ends of the yards together. I'll check it out in the field next spring. Too much growth right now.
 #282324  by henry6
 
Looking hard at what you have posted, Russ, I think you are looking at what must have been the Rutland going east. This becomes most apparent if you click on the Topo box. My c1915 road and railroad map reflects just what the map, sat, hybrid, and topo show: Rut east and west with the NYC up from the south on the east edge of Norwood, evidently shared track eastward a few feet to the Noorwood and StLawarance, the the NYC cutting off northward while the Rut went further east. In fact the topo map shows a sort of yard at that jct. filling in between it and the NYC on the NE quad of the jct.

 #288558  by RussNelson
 
Yes, most of that wetland used to be railroad yard. I expect that the still-existing CSX yard used to be NYC and RW&O each in its day. The gone yard on the south side of the wetland was the Rutland. Quite sure about all that. I was wondering about that faint line immediately to the west and south of the crosshairs. It sure looks like it could have been a track to allow southbound NYC trains to get to the Rutland, although I can't tell if it connected (at all) much less connected eastbound or westbound.

I was mostly hoping to get some perspective from people with more knowledge about railroad operations than I. Is that something that two railroads would do? Have a connecting track at the far end of their yards? I've seen something similar in Norwich, NY, where the NYO&W connected to the DL&W on both the north and south sides of their yards.
 #288621  by henry6
 
Anything was and is possible, of course. In my National Survey Maps book of c1915 I can't descern more than what I have told you. Perhaps a trip to Shaughenessey's RUTLAND book will help with the answers. Also check local histories and NYC and N&StL histories. Check libraries and ebay and rail shows.

 #288710  by Nicolai3985
 
After clicking your link, and zooming in one more step, your phantom line looks almost like the eastern leg of a wye off of the NYC. If you look closely, and use a little imagination, you can almost see the where the other leg would be. The position of it at the end of the yard would make sense, too.

-Nick

 #300744  by RussNelson
 
Bob Reagan (who lives down the road from me and who used to work for the Rutland when he was a young man) showed me a sketch of the Norwood yard, and .... no sign of any such runaround track. But ..... that doesn't mean that it wasn't built at some point and removed prior to the knowledge of the fellow who made the sketch. I did notice that, according to the sketch, there was no path through the yard which could be used to turn a train. I pointed that out to Bob, and he said "Well yes, but a transfer from the NYC to the Rutland would have also involved a change in motive equipment, and ... there's no need to turn the train itself."

Oh well, the leaves will be down within the month and I'll go there and check it out then.

 #311463  by RussNelson
 
Well, I went out to the north end of the mystery wye and to my experienced eye, it sure does look like it used to be a wye with a long tail. The strange thing to my mind, though, is that it's within the yard limits. If it were used as a turning track at the far end of the yard, you'd think that it would have been beyond the end of the yard so trains could re-enter the yard in the other direction.

Also, if it's real, then it's been disused for a very, very long time. Probably built at the very beginning of the RW&O. I would say that it's been at least 120 years since it had tracks.

 #313018  by Nicolai3985
 
If you estimate it to be 120 years old, is it possible that at that time, it was beyond the end of the yard? And that after its removal, that the yard was expanded past its location?

Just curious...were there other turning facilities at this yard/junction? Perhaps a turntable or another wye? I'm really unfamiliar with the area, but I'm thinking that if turning at this location was important enough then, that they'd make other arrangements once this wye was removed.

-Nick

 #313049  by RussNelson
 
Reading this little book by Susan Lyman covering railroads in Norwood,
http://russnelson.com/RWnO/www.northnet ... roads.html
I see that the RW&O was built to Norwood by 1851, but not to Massena until 1886. So the wye could very well have been the only turning facilities for a period. The same booklet shows the location of a roundhouse in Norwood. It's likely that the yard was extended, as engines became more powerful and could haul longer trains.

 #495248  by RussNelson
 
w00t w00t!! I've solved it! Look at this website (requires flash):
http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=44.75764 ... 0&src=aska
or if that doesn't work for you, look at this screenshot:
http://russnelson.com/temp/wye.jpg
I'll be a monkey's uncle if that's not a wye! This website doesn't have access to any visible-light image which has higher resolution than 1 meter per pixel, so they use the infrared imagery, which is 60cm per pixel. In some cases, this lets you punch through vegetation. And looking at its erosion and overgrowth, I'm pretty certain that this wye was the turn-around between 1851 and 1886.

 #495266  by pablo
 
Wow, Russ. Nice job. Cool tool, too.

Dave Becker
 #656955  by RussNelson
 
Walked the length of the yard today with Bob Reagan, who worked for the New York Central for a time. Tried to walk both legs of the wye, but could only make it down the eastern leg. The western is in a much wetter condition. The yard must have a higher water table now than then.

Was regaled with many tales by Bob, about how he used to riding the switching engines when he was a child. His father worked for the NYC, and Bob used to bring him his lunch in the yardmaster's house. We had a to-scale diagram of the yard, and tried to locate the engine house and turntable. No such luck. I found a couple of strips of concrete buried in the ground which might have been part of it, but Bob (who had actually SEEN it) said that it was further east than that.

Bob told me how the tracks were named, and that the northern of three tracks was called the Bowery. Well, on the way back, we noticed that one of the switch levers was labelled "Bowery", and Bob exclaimed "Hey, they still call it that!".
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