Is CSX going to sell?

I keep hearing from people that CSX is doing bad. They seem alright to me, compared to the short lines!

Then again, what do I know? But if they can buy brand new engines, they must have some money... or are the leased?

Regarding Nip's comments, they are generally right on target.

We may not like to admit it, but CSX is a business, not some fun thing that a group of railfans operate for the enjoyment of it. The managers of CSX have to answer to the stockholders. Therefore, they make decisions that, in their minds, are the best thing for CSX, economically. Some of their decisions may be very unpopular from a railfan's standpoint, but they were decisions that the managers felt were in the overall best interest of the railroad's operations and ultimately, financial bottom line.

20/20 hindsight is often much better than future-looking decision-making, especially when the decision-making was proven by time to have been faulty or downright stupid. But, decisions do not have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight on their outcome. That's life!

The railfan's perspective on a railroad's operations is quite similar to a sports fan's perspective on their favorite team. If the manager/front office decides to get rid of a popular player because they feel that he is no longer productive, the fans go nuts because they are sentimental and like the once-great player. Railfans often feel the same about railroad management's decisions.

That's the way it is, like it or not. Crazy Nip simply called it true.

ACLfan

Noel Weaver wrote:No. 1, Crazy Nip's comments are all BS and I am not going to waste my
time trying to answer them.

thats because my comments are right on point and you cannot answer them legitimately...

crazy_nip wrote:

Noel Weaver wrote:No. 1, Crazy Nip's comments are all BS and I am not going to waste my
time trying to answer them.

thats because my comments are right on point and you cannot answer them legitimately...

He could answer them, but he knows the only answer he has to to flame you for calling his bluffs and daring to question the words of someone who worked "years in the industry" and that you have no idea what you are talking about again...basically the same thing he's said to many others who he disagrees with.

efin98 wrote:

crazy_nip wrote:He could answer them, but he knows the only answer he has to to flame you for calling his bluffs and daring to question the words of someone who worked "years in the industry" and that you have no idea what you are talking about again...basically the same thing he's said to many others who he disagrees with.

he is one of those ex-conrail holier than thou people...

you know, the kind who, because of their arrogant stance toward management in labor negotiations back in the 70's basically CAUSED all the railroads to go bankrupt and foce the formation of conrail

conrail should have been called COMrail. For COMMUNISM.

Private companies couldnt make money due to stifling labor demands, 5 man crews, etc.

how do you defeat labor? sell out to the government, lose jobs through attrition and abandon lines en-mass

no matter how much they try, CSX will never be able to abandon as much trackage or cut as many jobs as conrail did through 1983

Noel Weaver was one of the lucky elitists who somehow made it through because of government welfare (conrail)

Ok, Im going to go out on a limb and prob. say something stupid but the only reason I asked the damn question was to learn. Not to start a freaking argument. I think you guys need to call each other on the phone and discuss this if you feel this strongly aginst each other. I for one just wanted to know what the chances were of my job being cut, if I get it. If yall want to bash each other start your oun topic. For those who tryed to help, thanks.

It is quite evident to me that "Crazy Nip", "ACL Fan" and Ed Findley do not
particularly like railroad employees either active or retired. I have also
witnessed this on other subjects on railroad net by others.
So some of you might think I was on "welfare" or something of that
nature during my forty one years on the railroad. I sure put in a lot of
hours, hauled a lot of freight and moved a lot of people for that "welfare".
It is quite easy to criticize somebody or somebody's work but you should
"walk in their shoes first". I don't think any of the above mentioned ever
have.
I have been through three take overs, one very nasty arbitration award,
one major split and a number of very crucial decisions that once I made
them, for the most part could not be reversed. I also survived a couple
of bankruptys too.
One reason I lasted for all of the years that I did was because I made some decent moves.
I also did my job to the best of my ability and kept my "nose clean".
Management always seemed to have money to pay their top executives a
huge seven figure salary with huge bonuses and stock options while they
complained about the expense of giving us a decent place to work (i.e.
engine cabs that were noisy, dirty, hot in the summer and cold in the
winter and without decent maintained toilet facilities among other things.
As for the coments about Conrail, some of you may not remember but
the unions by-passed a couple of pay increaes to assist in saving Conrail
and we worked for less pay than the rest of the industry for some time as
a result. We also gave back a number of our agreements to help save the
railroad.
The reason that lines were closed down and torn up was not the pay or
conditions of their employees but rather that the entire northeast was in
the process of losing much of the heavy industry that was such a good
customer of the railroad industry for a good many years.
My reason for my remarks was to put the employee's side in the picture
here along with the company's side. I did not put it on here to get my
rear end raked over a pile of hot coals.
My comments were apparently offensive to "Nip" and others and I have
tried to remove them as best as I can.
Noel Weaver

Well for the most part i dont post any comments but once in awhile i do. however the reason for my comments on this , i do realize that crazynip and "others" are wiseguys and arrogant. Being a NORTHERN CSX employee.. i also feel those individuals never have walk the shoes of a railroad employee, only they wish. I completely agree with Noel although i do not have nearly the years noel put in the railroad, but i can relate.

**Either knock off the flames and get back on topic civally or this is gonna be locked!!**

[quote="Noel Weaver"].
I also did my job to the best of my ability and kept my "nose clean".
Management always seemed to have money to pay their top executives a
huge seven figure salary with huge bonuses and stock options while they
complained about the expense of giving us a decent place to work (i.e.
engine cabs that were noisy, dirty, hot in the summer and cold in the
winter and without decent maintained toilet facilities among other things.
As for the coments about Conrail, some of you may not remember but
the unions by-passed a couple of pay increaes to assist in saving Conrail
and we worked for less pay than the rest of the industry for some time as
a result. We also gave back a number of our agreements to help save the
railroad.



How do locomotive cabs get dirty and toilets filthy???

You don't have to have worked for a railroad to know when someone's premise is way off, especially when that premise goes directly against the basic laws of economics that any moron who ever went to school or has half a brain would know.

You don't want them to sell lines that no longer turn a profit and are bleeding the system dry by taking much needed money and personnel away from other lines where they would do more good because it MAY and I emphasize MAY cost a small number of employees their jobs fine. Have it your way. Let the union have it's way.

Just don't cry foul when the company goes bankrupt because it can't afford to operate all those lines that it could have sold for a huge profit to a short line or regional railroad with no real loss of jobs. And don't give me any of that "they are non-unionized railroads" crap- a job is a job and if you would rather your collegues end up with no job at all fine but that's not only greedy it's pathetic.

Nip was right. It's history repeating itself.

Noel Weaver wrote:It is quite evident to me that "Crazy Nip", "ACL Fan" and Ed Findley do not
particularly like railroad employees either active or retired.

why do you think that? because they disagree with something you said?

how very accepting of you

at any rate, I cant speak for the others listed, but I dont NOT like railroad employees. In fact I know plenty and like most of them.

That said, like or dislike of railroa employees is not the matter at hand.

The matter at hand is the fact that you think railroads are or should be somehow exempt to the laws of economics. You think that railroad employees are exempt from the laws of supply and demand and that somehow they DESERVE higher wages and should be exempt from practices such as outsourcing, contracting, etc.

That is simply not the case. For too long railroad unions (UTU, BLE, etc) have negotiated wages and compensation plans, including work rules that are just absurd.

Yes, railroading is a dangerous job, but the work rules in place do nothing but drive COSTS to the railroads through the roof.

Look at the ILWU (longshoresmens union) and how thier hardnosed stance at management basically did them in. Look at the numbers of union workers in that union now vs. 1960. They priced themselves out of the market. Now look at the UAW (automotive union), same thing. All the factories moved to mexico and canada.

Railroad workers have priced themselves out of existance basically (the EL railway, rock island, + most of the railroads that ended up being conrail) priced themselved out of jobs in the future...

I have also
witnessed this on other subjects on railroad net by others.
So some of you might think I was on "welfare" or something of that
nature during my forty one years on the railroad.

you were from 1976 to whenever conrail became a publically traded company, like it or not, you were a ward of the U.S. government...

I sure put in a lot of
hours, hauled a lot of freight and moved a lot of people for that "welfare".
It is quite easy to criticize somebody or somebody's work but you should
"walk in their shoes first". I don't think any of the above mentioned ever
have.

Cant speak for everybody, but I have a job... might not be on the railroad, but I have a job. If you want special gratitude for working on the railroad, try putting up a booth at one of the model train shows...

I have been through three take overs, one very nasty arbitration award,
one major split and a number of very crucial decisions that once I made
them, for the most part could not be reversed. I also survived a couple
of bankruptys too.
One reason I lasted for all of the years that I did was because I made some decent moves.

see, this is my point...

I have been through 3 mergers, 2 sets of layoffs and have had the company I worked for go BANKRUPT (chapter 7 liquidation) and stiff me for a good hunk of pay, plus severance. And I KNOW I am a good deal younger than you.

Yet I am employed and make a good living. Because I can adapt.

Working for the railroad doesnt make you exempt from mergers, layoffs, etc. THE REST OF THE WORKING PUBLIC has to deal with these things too

And I havent needed to go through a bankrupcy

I also did my job to the best of my ability and kept my "nose clean".

you want an award for not getting into trouble with the law too?

Management always seemed to have money to pay their top executives a
huge seven figure salary with huge bonuses and stock options while they
complained about the expense of giving us a decent place to work (i.e.
engine cabs that were noisy, dirty, hot in the summer and cold in the
winter and without decent maintained toilet facilities among other things.

typical management hating, if it makes you feel better, then fine, vent

As for the coments about Conrail, some of you may not remember but
the unions by-passed a couple of pay increaes to assist in saving Conrail
and we worked for less pay than the rest of the industry for some time as
a result. We also gave back a number of our agreements to help save the
railroad.
The reason that lines were closed down and torn up was not the pay or
conditions of their employees but rather that the entire northeast was in
the process of losing much of the heavy industry that was such a good
customer of the railroad industry for a good many years.

In other words, conrail management realized you were overpaid, and since they were the government, they told you what you would make, and showed you where the door was in case you thought the grass was greener, somewhere else...

My reason for my remarks was to put the employee's side in the picture
here along with the company's side. I did not put it on here to get my
rear end raked over a pile of hot coals.

your own comments put you in the position you are now, you have no one else to blame...

My comments were apparently offensive to "Nip" and others and I have
tried to remove them as best as I can.
Noel Weaver

not offensive, just plain wrong

ACLfan wrote:That's the way it is, like it or not. Crazy Nip simply called it true.

ACLfan

thanks for seeing things without your railfan blinders on...

a truly rare feat on these boards

efin98 wrote:Just don't cry foul when the company goes bankrupt because it can't afford to operate all those lines that it could have sold for a huge profit to a short line or regional railroad with no real loss of jobs. And don't give me any of that "they are non-unionized railroads" crap- a job is a job and if you would rather your collegues end up with no job at all fine but that's not only greedy it's pathetic.

like the erie lackawanna?

C&O was in talks to buy part of the system and N&W wanted parts too, but labor wouldnt budge

4 and 5 man crews and ignorant unions did them in

Nelson Bay wrote:

Noel Weaver wrote:How do locomotive cabs get dirty and toilets filthy???

The problem is lack of cleaning / servicing the locomotives.

Also, it doesn't help that more than 75% of T&E employees are smokers and smoke in the locomotive cabs, although it is a violation of company policy.