• Infrastructure bill, what's the plan for New Jersey

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, nick11a, Kaback9

  by Tom V
 
I've been seeing some details being released showing details of what each state is slated to get in the new infrastructure bill. I've even seen some details, for instance NJ.com is reporting New Jersey is slated to get $12.5 Billion over five years. Of that $4.5 Billion is for transit, the Gateway tunnel is slated to get funding through a different source for projects of National significance.

Besides Gateway there are other projects that will benefit New Jersey, the big one is obviously the large investment into Amtrak and specifically the Northeast Corridor. The other two are an Amtrak proposal to restore passenger rail service to Allentown and Easton PA as well as Scranton from New York City. We've long discussed the Lackawanna cut-off on here and it's glacial progress, who would have ever guessed it would be Amtrak who finally gets it built. The Amtrak project to Scranton will give NJ Transit the ability to expand their own service as far as Andover, Blairstown and the Water Gap. I could see NJ Transit as far as East Stroudsburg.

Same with Amtrak's proposal to expand service from New York City to the Lehigh Valley, NJ Transit would be able to expand their service back to Phillipsburg and even possibly Easton.

All that without even touching the $4.5 Billion of New Jersey's share of the transit funds. NJ Transit has opportunities to bolster their system in anticipation for the new Gateway tunnels, which means more equipment and network expansion. Even if there's not enough room for all their trains to serve New York City directly, the space freed up be sending Bergen/Main and additional M&E trains to Manhattan would create opportunities for other trains to serve Hoboken.

Two projects I definitely see benefitting are the Northern Branch extension of the HBLRT and the Camden-Glassboro light rail. Even in high cost New Jersey I don't see those two projects eating up all of that $4.5 Billion.

There's West Trenton, MOM, West Shore line as well as Passaic/NYSW routes. The majority of these new trains could go to Hoboken when the Gateway tunnel opens.

There's the Hunter flyover which might benefit from Amtrak's investment in the NEC. There's the second track for the Waterfront Connection to allow more NEC, NJCL, RVL trains to access Hoboken. There's also a NJ Transit capital plan for a third track between Waldwick and Suffern, Third and Fourth Track along the Lehigh Line between Alden and Newark. And then there's Portal South.

Besides NJ Transit there's also the PATH Extension to Newark airport.

Pretty exciting stuff, I want to see the State step up with a plan
  by WashingtonPark
 
Tom V wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:14 pm
Two projects I definitely see benefitting are the Northern Branch extension of the HBLRT and the Camden-Glassboro light rail. Even in high cost New Jersey I don't see those two projects eating up all of that $4.5 Billion.
As I was on one of the committees in 2010 I can tell you that the cost for the Glassboro line was an eye popping 2.5 billion dollars of which the state needed the Feds to kick in at least half. I have no idea what the estimated cost is 11 years later, although half a billion was for studies that have already been paid for.
  by Tom V
 
WashingtonPark wrote:
Tom V wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:14 pm
Two projects I definitely see benefitting are the Northern Branch extension of the HBLRT and the Camden-Glassboro light rail. Even in high cost New Jersey I don't see those two projects eating up all of that $4.5 Billion.
As I was on one of the committees in 2010 I can tell you that the cost for the Glassboro line was an eye popping 2.5 billion dollars of which the state needed the Feds to kick in at least half. I have no idea what the estimated cost is 11 years later, although half a billion was for studies that have already been paid for.
Since it's the only South Jersey transit project I see a strong chance it receives funding.

Speaking of South Jersey, there are two things I would love to see:

1. Moving the Cherry Hill ACL line station to Route 70 and out from behind the Home Depot.

2. A new ACL station at the Woodcrest PATCO station park n ride. The benefit is direct ramps leading from I-295.
  by Bracdude181
 
The bill gave $12 billion for NJ. Supposedly that’s enough to cover the new Hudson River tunnels that Amtrak desperately wants to build ASAP.

But here’s the thing. Last I heard the tunnel would cost something around 9-11 billion to build. If this bill money goes towards that then what can they do with what’s left over?
  by WashingtonPark
 
Tom V wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:02 am
2. A new ACL station at the Woodcrest PATCO station park n ride. The benefit is direct ramps leading from I-295.
That has actually been planned out and is doable except PATCO has fought it for years as they don't want any stations on a line running next to theirs, at least that was the attitude in the early 2000s.
  by MACTRAXX
 
WashingtonPark wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:16 pm
Tom V wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:02 am
2. A new ACL station at the Woodcrest PATCO station park n ride. The benefit is direct ramps leading from I-295.
That has actually been planned out and is doable except PATCO has fought it for years as they don't want any stations on a line running next to theirs, at least that was the attitude in the early 2000s.
TV and WP: A new ACRL Line station at Woodcrest would be first only 2.6 miles from Lindenwold.
Another problem would be how much (expensive) excavation would be necessary to connect the new ACRL
platform to the PATCO station - and keep separate the free and paid areas for PATCO. With PATCO's frequent
service at most times of day - the New Jersey Stations fare is $1.60 from Lindenwold good as far west as WRTC
and City Hall-Camden - PATCO is a good connection instead of having two close redundant ACRL stations.

Cherry Hill Station's problem is a lack of identification from the local roads and being built behind shopping
centers - instead of an expensive move add better signs (as a start) to further identify the station's location.

The problem with this new infrastructure money is that the need to secure existing mass transit before any
thought of new projects can be brought about especially in the wake of pandemic ridership losses.
This is something that was mentioned in the news elsewhere that I have noted...MACTRAXX
  by Tom V
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:17 am The bill gave $12 billion for NJ. Supposedly that’s enough to cover the new Hudson River tunnels that Amtrak desperately wants to build ASAP.

But here’s the thing. Last I heard the tunnel would cost something around 9-11 billion to build. If this bill money goes towards that then what can they do with what’s left over?
The State of New Jersey is slated to get $12.5 Billion in total for everything, including roads, bridges, ports etc.. Of the $12.5 Billion $4.5 Billion is slated for transit. The Gateway tunnel project is slated to be paid for from the significant funds Amtrak will be receiving along with a fund for large National projects.

NJ would have $4.5 Billion for transit other than Gateway. So far the only thing publicly discussed is the Hunter Flyover for RVL trains.
  by WashingtonPark
 
The plan was to place the NJT Woodcrest station on the other side of the TNJ tracks, not enter from the PATCO station. PATCO was opposed to it and TNJ never bothered with it after the studies, but the idea was that it would be much more convenient to pick the train up at Woodcrest to Atlantic City and help alleviate the parking issues at Lindenwold. I wasn't told this but I speculate that if the Woodcrest station had been put in they would have closed Lindenwold.
  by Tom V
 
WashingtonPark wrote:The plan was to place the NJT Woodcrest station on the other side of the TNJ tracks, not enter from the PATCO station. PATCO was opposed to it and TNJ never bothered with it after the studies, but the idea was that it would be much more convenient to pick the train up at Woodcrest to Atlantic City and help alleviate the parking issues at Lindenwold. I wasn't told this but I speculate that if the Woodcrest station had been put in they would have closed Lindenwold.
It makes sense for NJ Transit to move their PATCO connection to Woodcrest, would there enough demand for ACL stations at Lindenwold Woodcrest? Woodcrest has so much better highway access to I-295

Also for the ACL, is it possible they could use NJ Transit’s dual mode locomotives and run through 30th street stations upper level to Suburban and Jefferson stations?
  by cle
 
With Hunter, what would be the platforming arrangement at Newark Penn? Assuming continuation to Penn/Hoboken? Especially with Waterfront doubling.

Or turn around on the other platform, giving RVL two active track? Or to only used for through trains, but the existing platform could do Newark terminators?

Curious what else could be done with the RVL - along with TODs along the route, it seems like such a good growth prospect for more intensive service - better than the Coast I would say.
  by Tom V
 
The infrastructure bill was signed into law last night. It brings huge investments into railroads, transit, Amtrak and a special projects fund. Several projects in New Jersey will benefit, NJ Transit can combine efforts with Amtrak in three areas:

Amtrak is planning to expand service to Scranton, Allentown and Reading Pennsylvania. With these projects NJ Transit has related projects:

Hunter flyover, and a third and fourth tracks on the Lehigh Valley line between Newark and Crawford are both projects in NJ Transits capital plan. Both of these projects would support both NJ Transit’s Raritan Valley line and Amtrak’s plan for service to Allentown.

The Lackawanna cutoff is obviously a long planned NJ Transit project which is necessary for Amtrak to connect NYC with Scranton.

And of course the largest project is Gateway, which is crucial to both Amtrak and NJ transit.

New Jersey could also benefit from the funds for transit, HBLRT to Bergen county, Gloucester County light rail and PATH extension to the Newark Airport Airlink station.


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  by lensovet
 
The article is really confusingly written, I suggest reading the Corbett's prepared comments instead here: https://transportation.house.gov/imo/me ... timony.pdf

Note that this isn't NJ Transit that's outlining the projects, but rather the NEC Commission, of which Corbett is the cochair. Also important to note that yes, that is Portal South you're reading — meaning the second Portal bridge that's supposed to go up parallel to Portal North (which is the project that's actually been approved and funded).
  by west point
 
lensovet wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:06 am . Also important to note that yes, that is Portal South you're reading — meaning the second Portal bridge that's supposed to go up parallel to Portal North (which is the project that's actually been approved and funded).
that is good news IMO. Do you have any cite that confirms this is Portal south?