• Information on if the possibly last RTL-III set is up for Sale/Donation

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Galey
 
Hi, me and a few others are currently looking to try and save possibly the last RTL-III remaining (Other two are MIA). However it's unknown what Amtrak has planned for the unit in Adams yard, I'm looking for someone who can give information on if the RTL-III set is up for Sale/Donation. I'm looking for this information to give to museums, as it's not likely that they would show interest without basic information.

This post is based on preservation not Reactivation. The current state of the RTLs are beyond recoverable to restore it to running operation. This post is purely looking for information on cost and if Amtrak is interested in donating.
  by Tadman
 
It would be cool to see one preserved. You have the usualy question of "with what money" that any preservation effort faces, but this is a significant piece of equipment. Also I seem to remeber some were moved a few years back indicating they might be safe to be dragged to a museum, versus being on isolated track and/or not moving in 20+ years.

The other big questions is "what do we do with a preserved HST?". The only preserved HST in operation that I am aware of is the North Shore Electroliner, and that is such an early HST that it basically works like a super-big interurban. There are a few preserved Shinkansen and the British XPT, and they are all cosmetically restored and stuffed/mounted. You could probably only preserve 1-2 power cars and 1-2 coaches given space constraints at even the bigger museums. Maybe somewhere like IRM could tow a power-coach-power set around behind a switcher but that raises HVAC and lighting questions.

Bottom line if one is preserved it's probably a few coach/power units at a bigger museum on cosmetic display.

Of course the Mexicans and Nigerians are buying secondhand HST's in the form of 43-class HST125 and runnning them daily!
  by Galey
 
The RTL-IIIs will likely never run again with the state they've been left in, however a complete interior and exterior rebuild is possible probably only taking a few hundred thousand dollars.(that's cheap train wise)
With the things needing to be rebuilt being
1. The interiors were likely gutted, if not they are in horrid condition
2. Panel replacement and rust removal as the units have battled the harsh weather for decades.
3. Repainting the units will likely be the easiest task.
  by NaugyRR
 
I could see a power car, maybe, but a whole trainset? Doubtful.

They used to have a cab mock up at the fairgrounds in Syracuse, next to the GG1; I'm not sure if that's still there or not.

Danbury just took an AEM-7, maybe they'll want a power car too? The big museum in PA may also be another market.

It all boils down to yard space and money. While it would be nice to preserve an example of everything, it's simply not feasible.
  by Matt Johnson
 
So the set with power cars 2135 and 2158 was up in New Haven last I saw, and the other two sets were still in North Brunswick. Has that changed? If I had the means, I'd love to help preserve one but it's definitely something that takes serious money. I recently donated to the fund to restore B&M 3713 at Steamtown in Scranton even though I don't know if that's going anywhere. Were there a Turboliner preservation effort, I'd find it worthy of support. Those are pretty unique pieces of equipment, and it'd be a shame if they met the same ultimate fate as the UA Turbos. At least France preserved one of their RTG sets.
  by Galey
 
NaugyRR wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:56 am
Danbury just took an AEM-7, maybe they'll want a power car too? The big museum in PA may also be another market.
I know the guy who is in charge of that project, he says that the RTL would be a pain to move due to the MTA, and they don't have enough yard space
  by shadyjay
 
Are we really talking about saving a Turboliner? Good god, can we just let them die already? Preserving one would be the ultimate in the definition of government waste. The fact that a few of the trainsets were refurbished using NYS funds (significant funds) and barely ran, and that some of them were scrapped with the brand new seats still wrapped in plastic. If I ran a railroad museum and those things showed up at my door, I'd be embarrassed, especially if it was a museum in New York. And can you just imagine a railroad museum trying to get funding to either move or cosmetically restore such equipment? I would hope they wouldn't get one penny from anyone in NY.... government or otherwise.

I get it... everyone wants to save everything, but this just seems something not worth saving. Just dig a big hole and thrown 'em in there. I think one's still in Cedar Hill Yard in New Haven CT... we can throw it in the same hole as the EP-3s and EP-4s and the I-5s. :grinning:
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
shadyjay wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 8:00 pm I get it... everyone wants to save everything, but this just seems something not worth saving. Just dig a big hole and thrown 'em in there. I think one's still in Cedar Hill Yard in New Haven CT... we can throw it in the same hole as the EP-3s and EP-4s and the I-5s. :grinning:
I couldn't be more with you on this point, Mr. Hogan.

Lest our youngsters around need to go to grade school, to learn of an I-5, and likely the EP-3 and EP-4, the following should be of help:



Oh well, when it's time for some folk to move out of their house and into the nursing home (I guess you are supposed to call them Senior Centers nowadays), no wonder they have so much clutter that sometimes two industrial dumpsters are needed to haul it all away - a tragic real life incident around my parts).
  by Jeff Smith
 
The set in Cedar Hill was still there when I last passed. I believe it is used for police and fire training, so I would think that the interior is probably in pretty good shape.

Display? Hmmm. Space is at a premium.
  by Tadman
 
shadyjay wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 8:00 pm Are we really talking about saving a Turboliner? Good god, can we just let them die already? Preserving one would be the ultimate in the definition of government waste.
I'm not sure how that's government waste other than the lost scrap revenue, if any. Recall that Metro North had to pay a scrapper to take similar-aged M2 cars due to asbestos and such. I wouldn't advocate for the government to build a museum around a preserved Turbo, but a private museum such as Danbury or IRM would be a possible home for a car or two from a turbo.
  by eolesen
 
I can't think of a single piece in the IRM collection that isn't presented in full context...

You can't just present the power car or a coach without the other component to it. It's like preserving a steam engine tender by itself, or just the engine without a tender. It would look out of place.

And that's going to be the problem with trying to preserve a turbo liner or an Acela. They would be stationary relics that require a heck of a lot of track space at $90 a foot.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

  by NaugyRR
 
eolesen wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:58 am ...You can't just present the power car or a coach without the other component to it. It's like preserving a steam engine tender by itself, or just the engine without a tender. It would look out of place.
It would look out of place but at least you'd have something preserved versus nothing. Just because the IRM does things a certain way doesn't mean that all museums have to follow the same template. Every museum has a different budget and different amounts of storage space.

The RRMPA only has one Metroliner unit preserved, the two remaining LRC locomotives are preserved less their associated rolling stock, the URHS doesn't run a complete example of the 20th Century.

If you look overseas, Japanese museums get by with displaying the power cars of their trainsets, the UK has preserved Class 43's less their Mark 3 coach sets...

It's about preserving an example, not saving a complete collection. If Amtrak called *insert museum here* tomorrow and said, "Hey, we're giving away the RTL power cars and scrapping the coaches, we'll even drop one off for you", any museum that has yard space and interest is not going to say "No thanks, we were hoping for the full set!"
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
NaugyRR wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:32 am The RRMPA only has one Metroliner unit preserved, the two remaining LRC locomotives are preserved less their associated rolling stock, the URHS doesn't run a complete example of the 20th Century.
Even the New York Transit Museum can't have a full train of all car classes, such as the BMT A/Bs, D-class /Triplex
and IRT Low Voltage cars. When it comes to the postwar fleet, a mixed train (train of many colors) seems enough.

Although I'm hoping Metroliner 800 (cab car 9645) ends up at URHS being the very first in the class and also
(along with 802) setting speed records on the Trenton-New Brunswick segment in late 1967.