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  • Info on passenger boarding photo?

  • Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.
Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.

Moderator: scottychaos

 #1556120  by hatchet
 
I'm hoping to get some info on this photo. It was taken by my wife's great grandfather around 1905. He lived in Bethlehem PA, but also spent a lot of time in New York. His family had strong connections to the LVRR. Ideally, I'd love to discover what station/location this was at, but I know there's not much in the photo to help on that. I'd also like to know some general things such as what size station would have these characteristics? What is that overpass structure with the bell, and is this something many stations had, or might it uniquely identify this location? How did the people get in between two trains like that - did they have to cross tracks? Things like that. Because of where they lived, my first guess was that this was somewhere served by LVRR, which is why I posted here. Let me know if there is a better section of Railroad.net forums this should go. Thanks.
s1.jpg
s1.jpg (272.6 KiB) Viewed 1951 times
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s2.jpg (169.78 KiB) Viewed 1951 times
 #1556134  by edbear
 
I think the structure is a lake boat, not on the Great Lakes but maybe one of the Finger Lakes in LV territory, Upstate New York.
 #1556135  by hatchet
 
I don't think it's a boat. I think it's a walk way over the tracks with a little building in the center, like some sort of control tower. You can see through the underneath of it to buildings behind. But my thinking could be wrong, since the cars on either side do not continue as far as that structure. I'm pretty sure buildings are visible behind/below it though.
 #1556137  by chrisf
 
hatchet wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:35 pm I don't think it's a boat. I think it's a walk way over the tracks with a little building in the center, like some sort of control tower. You can see through the underneath of it to buildings behind. But my thinking could be wrong, since the cars on either side do not continue as far as that structure. I'm pretty sure buildings are visible behind/below it though.
There looks to be a big wheel in the middle of the house over the train cars. That pretty definitely looks like a ferry to me. There's also a bell up there. The people are also standing in the gauge of a 3rd track, the rails of which are bolted down.
 #1556146  by edbear
 
Keuka, Cayuga and Oneida all had steamboats, usually in the 100 - 160 ft range. They were day boats but probably had a few parlor staterooms for people who did not wish to rub shoulders with plebes. The landing is probably set up to land passengers on the upper deck. The lower would have engineroom, machinery and space for a limited amount of freight and provisions for lake landings not on rail lines and isolated cottage communities. The locals knew the lakes pretty well. Who had summers off to sail around the lakes.....school teachers. There were organized tours for them going way back. Also, there might have been day excursions from Rochester, Buffalo and Syracuse.
 #1556154  by Cosmo
 
That's 100% certain a FERRY boat.
Railroad carferry, the structure above is DEFINITELY the wheelhouse.
What I DON'T know is what waterway connections the LV would have had at that time.
My suggestion for further research:
Find a LVRR "system map" or "route map." It will show ferry service connections/routes as dashed lines over bodies of water.
 #1556157  by hatchet
 
I had assumed it was a shot at a station, and an LVRR station was my guess, and the reason I posted here. Now that I've learned it's a shot aboard or immediately next to a carferry, it increases the possibility it might not be LVRR related. It could be a Hudson ferry (the person taking the photo had an office in New York City even though he lived in Bethlehem), or something up near the Canada border (there are other photos taken around Niagara Falls in the collection this photo is part of - although I'd have thought bridges would have removed the need for ferries in that area after 1900 when this photo was likely taken). Today I searched for old images that match the wheelhouse of this photo, but so far have not found a match. Still, I know a lot more about this photo now than when I posted this, so I appreciate the help.
 #1556159  by Cosmo
 
The photo was definitely taken on board the ferry.
The woman to the right is standing on the hatch cover or "combing" over the access to the below decks areas. These may or may not be for refueling the coal bunkers below the deck, and/or for ventilation and light to below.
Also, you can see the deck is a smooth surface, likely steel, and the rails are bolted down to the deck, not spiked to wooden ties.

There was an excellent episode of (IIRC, the title) "Undersea Detectives" where they explore a sunken carferry under one of the great lakes, either Superior or Michigan. It shouldn't be too difficult to find.
A LOT of really good info on those kinds of ferry operations.

The photo you have could easily be on any of the Great Lakes, somewhere along the Hudson, or in/around NY Harbor.
If your date is correct, it's not too likely to be on LI Sound as (as noted) the Hell Gate Bridge was already completed by then and while a few passenger ferrys were still running there was no need for railroad carferry service along the sound.

My strongest inclination is toward the Great Lakes. I doubt the LVRR (assuming that's the road pictured) got as far as L. Michigan or L. Superior, but Lake Erie could very well have been connected, if not directly by the LV, certainly via trackage rights or agreements.

Good luck in your research!
 #1556164  by edbear
 
The Lakes Michigan, Erie and Ontario car ferry routes normally carried only freight cars. Passengers were usually carried but not in railroad cars. The LV participated in a second tier NY-Chicago routing using the Grand Trunk west of Buffalo (or N Falls). The GT ferried entire passenger trains with their passengers across the Detroit River until the early 1950s.
 #1556208  by johnpbarlow
 
I agree these photos look to have been taken aboard the GT river ferry SS Lansdowne:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Lansdowne
https://www.hippostcard.com/listing/gra ... rd/9248531
https://www.ottawadetroit.com/products/ ... roit-river

Per January- February 1905 Official Railway Guide, LV and Grand Trunk jointly operated passenger service between Chicago and New York via Suspension Bridge and Detroit/Windsor (although it looks like some of these trains ran via Port Huron/Sarnia as well:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... &q1=Lehigh
 #1556211  by hatchet
 
After looking at a bunch of old images, the one that looks like the closest match is the "Michigan Central". It has 3 pairs of rail, no center supports, and has the distinctive diagonal braces on the wheelhouse.
 #1556245  by johnpbarlow
 
"Michigan Central" ferry does seem like the best match to the original photo but I have not found any 1905 era timetables suggesting LV and MC partnered in passenger service via Detroit. It appears that LV's primary partner here was Grand Trunk. Maybe the Lehigh has nothing to do with the photo?
 #1556252  by hatchet
 
johnpbarlow wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:25 am "Michigan Central" ferry does seem like the best match to the original photo but I have not found any 1905 era timetables suggesting LV and MC partnered in passenger service via Detroit. It appears that LV's primary partner here was Grand Trunk. Maybe the Lehigh has nothing to do with the photo?
I'm afraid you're pretty much right - other than the familial connection to LVRR, I can see now that the photo isn't connected. My initial guess at the photo being of a station served by LVRR was about as wrong as you can get. But I'm extremely appreciative of the replies I received that got me to the correct answer. Now I can fit the photo into the context of others in the collection.