Ice Road Truckers

http://www.history.com/minisites/iceroadtruckers

You guys see this show on the History channel? During the winter, the lakes freeze and they plow them into a road to haul supplies up to diamond mines. There are no roads so once the lakes freeze, no more supplies except by air. Now the show isn't a documentary, its a highly sensationalized reality tv show, so its hard to know how accurate a picture you're getting of the whole situation.

But
You know what's coming...

Why don't they just build a rail line?
Seems a whole lot safer than driving 18+wheelers on ice. Plus once built, you could use it year around. There wouldn't be the "rush" to get everything up there during ice season. You could take it as needed. And with a train, you could pretty much take everything, all at once.

What's your take on this?

Actually there was indeed a 'documentary' about the Ice Road Truckers aired years ago, discussing the history and operation of, well, ice road trucking in the Canadian Northwest - there was some 'drama' of course, but it was mostly reality based, and actually kind of interesting.
I guess since Discovery grabbed the King Crab & Lobster fishermen, the History channel figured this would be good teevee drama.

Anyway, as I thought, the loads are actually not all that big, the mines and villages they serve would not make a profitable market - if the area is permafrost, doesn't it require significant roadbed maintainence and support (here I'm thinking of the new Chinese line to Tibet - I couldn't find mention of exactly how Russia deals with the permafrost sections of the Baikal-Amur Magistral (BAM) Trans-Siberian extension, just that it's difficult)

There is a railroad up to the Great Slave Lake (Mackenzie Northern Railway - repurchased by CN last year) at Hayes River - I suppose from here some supplies are trucked from here out to the tundra (and barged to Yellowknife), but again not enough traffic to make such an maintainence-intensive line pay.

Hmm, about that Chinese line & permafrost:

About 80 percent of the Qinghai-Tibet line is above 4,000 meters and is laid on potentially unstable permafrost, or frozen ground.
To keep the permafrost stable, Chinese engineers sank pipes with cooling elements into the ground around the tracks to stabilize the embankments and ensure they stayed frozen.
...
Daniel Wong, a Shenzhen-based engineer who helped set up a similar cooling technology on permafrost along the Alaskan oil pipeline in the 1970's, said the pipes likely use solar energy to power a pump and compressor that continuously cycles ammonia or some other liquid into a gas, producing cold air.
...
"It's a very expensive system because the columns are steel and the refrigeration units have to be inspected every month,'' said Wong. "Plus if it breaks, it will sink and then you have a lot of problems.''
...
He added that some 120 kilometers (75 miles) of the rail line were also put on elevated bridges in spots where the permafrost was thought to be least stable.

History Channel has garnered less and less of my viewtime.

At first, it was that - History, and much of that involved WWII.

But I guess "The Hitler Channel" did not "bring home the bacon" in the ratings department (remember ratings with cable can be far more accurate at least insofar as what and where than they can ever be for broadcast) so they transformed to their current "infotainment' format.

But I guess "The Hitler Channel"

A joke so well known it even made it on the Simpsons

did not "bring home the bacon" in the ratings department

Well, they run 'Modern Marvels' often enough (I recently found there were over 400+ MM episodes! O_o - many of them neither modern or a marvel)

so they transformed to their current "infotainment' format.

Unlike the Discovery channel of course.
OK Mr Bon Jovi, hit it:
I'm a crabber... on a steel boat I ride...
I trap King Crabs...Mostly alive

I wonder if the recent problems with the hudsonn bay line in Canada are to do with permafrost melting ?
From what i can see i wouldnt rely on ice been as far south (in the northern hemisphere )as it is now . to mt way of thinking Air ships are the way to go in these fragile enviroments .

David Benton wrote:I wonder if the recent problems with the hudsonn bay line in Canada are to do with permafrost melting ?
From what i can see i wouldnt rely on ice been as far south (in the northern hemisphere )as it is now . to mt way of thinking Air ships are the way to go in these fragile enviroments .

The tendency will be for the permafrost no longer to be permanent.

and relase tonnes of methane in the process of thawing out , if the Russian tundra is typical of what will happen .
When they built the railway over the swamps between Auckland and hamilton , New Zealand , they actually floated parts of it on huge rafts of cut down trees . i wonder if a modern equilvalet is possible thses days .

David Benton wrote:and relase tonnes of methane in the process of thawing out , if the Russian tundra is typical of what will happen .
When they built the railway over the swamps between Auckland and hamilton , New Zealand , they actually floated parts of it on huge rafts of cut down trees . i wonder if a modern equilvalet is possible thses days .

Famously, the same was true of the original Liverpool to Manchester railway, when they crossed Chats Moss.

David Benton wrote:and relase tonnes of methane in the process of thawing out , if the Russian tundra is typical of what will happen .
When they built the railway over the swamps between Auckland and hamilton , New Zealand , they actually floated parts of it on huge rafts of cut down trees . i wonder if a modern equilvalet is possible thses days .

Hell Russia has whole citys built on the Permafrost! I don't know how they did it but many of thows citys were built just as Stalin was comeing into power and there still there.

scharnhorst wrote:

David Benton wrote:and relase tonnes of methane in the process of thawing out , if the Russian tundra is typical of what will happen .
When they built the railway over the swamps between Auckland and hamilton , New Zealand , they actually floated parts of it on huge rafts of cut down trees . i wonder if a modern equilvalent is possible thses days .

Hell Russia has whole cities built on the Permafrost! I don't know how they did it but many of those cities were built just as Stalin was coming into power and they still there.

I have seen pictures of Siberian towns sinking into the ground because of melting. The same can be seen in Alaska. I wonder how the BAM railway is managing?

george matthews wrote:

scharnhorst wrote:

David Benton wrote:and relase tonnes of methane in the process of thawing out , if the Russian tundra is typical of what will happen .
When they built the railway over the swamps between Auckland and hamilton , New Zealand , they actually floated parts of it on huge rafts of cut down trees . i wonder if a modern equilvalent is possible thses days .

Hell Russia has whole cities built on the Permafrost! I don't know how they did it but many of those cities were built just as Stalin was coming into power and they still there.

I have seen pictures of Siberian towns sinking into the ground because of melting. The same can be seen in Alaska. I wonder how the BAM railway is managing?

From what I found on google it apears that you can still buy tickits to ride on the Baikal Amur Railroad (BAM) follow the link below for info.
http://www.trans-siberian.info/baikal-amur.php