How much are Class I and II railroads paid by Amtrak?

taracer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:54 pmIf anything, most Class 1's are ripping off Amtrak now a days, in fact it's kind of criminal in my opinion.

By what measure? If they're paying less than the present-day opportunity cost, in any other business that would constitute a government taking....

Trip optimizer is something optimizing speed based on fuel costs? Or what is being optimized?

Definitely not efficiency.

eolesen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:35 pm

taracer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:54 pmIf anything, most Class 1's are ripping off Amtrak now a days, in fact it's kind of criminal in my opinion.

By what measure? If they're paying less than the present-day opportunity cost, in any other business that would constitute a government taking....

Yes, that's kind of what I'm getting at, the ROW's should be nationalized, and should have been at least 40 years ago.

taracer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:16 pm Yes, that's kind of what I'm getting at, the ROW's should be nationalized, and should have been at least 40 years ago.

The USRA could have done it and did so in the Northeast, but even most of main trunk lines in the USRA system under CR went to CSX or NS.

But the point being, Mr. Taracer, your road (why do I think you are with Chessie?) is entitled to conduct its private sector business in the matter it chooses to. If it loses a valuable contract such as with Tropicana, then the managers the shareholders appointed must answer for their misdeeds.

While some members have refuted the purpose of my observations on the BNSF, I observe manifest freights (not Mr. JBH's by any means) operating at 25mph. I contend it is a "why run faster? We have a fresh crew and all we need to get to is Galesburg - 145 miles away".

Somehow, I think the party barely paying an incremental cost to be on your rails need accept a "booey on you; we get you over the road when our other operations - the ones that put the Fancy Feast in our four-legged girl's bowl - allow".

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:20 am The agreements may differ with different carriers too. There's definitely a performance incentive program with BNSF and their internal policy lately seems to be to keep Amtrak moving so they can cash in on the performance incentives offered by Amtrak to the extent possible.

This is really interesting. Can you tell us any more? This seems to imply that on one road, Amtrak is paying something like the opportunity cost. Which raises a lot of questions. And makes me think the amount Amtrak pays isn't a pittance, and may be close to the opportunity cost elsewhere.

taracer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:16 pm Yes, that's kind of what I'm getting at, the ROW's should be nationalized, and should have been at least 40 years ago.

It's not even worth continuing that line of discussion.

ryanwc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:12 pm

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:20 am The agreements may differ with different carriers too. There's definitely a performance incentive program with BNSF and their internal policy lately seems to be to keep Amtrak moving so they can cash in on the performance incentives offered by Amtrak to the extent possible.

This is really interesting. Can you tell us any more? This seems to imply that on one road, Amtrak is paying something like the opportunity cost. Which raises a lot of questions. And makes me think the amount Amtrak pays isn't a pittance, and may be close to the opportunity cost elsewhere.

As stated before by Mr. Olesen these things are not publicized so I don’t know the specifics but there has been some anecdotal information and observations posted by some “insiders” there here and some other places indicating that. And one can simply see it with the Builder. The Builder tends to get late when it has its own issues or when it’s a freight breakdown or derailment on the line - not usually from just holding in sidings. There’s other carriers that have also seen remarkable Amtrak performance improvements lately including CSX and that could be the result of Amtrak ponying up more cash. The roads they seem to be the most at odds with these days are UP, NS, and CN. Though they seem to be trying to work things out with NS by moving the Crescent’s schedule, etc.

Interesting, milord. Thanks.

I wish there were a map of the entire Amtrak system color-coded with host railroads. Or maybe there is?

I know it's possible to sort it out, but not being an expert, I'd love a quick reference.

You cannot talk about opportunity cost unless the private railroad is running at full maximum capacity -- longest possible freight trains on minimum headway, 24/7. Is that the case today? Strongly doubt it. Especially if, as some posters state, freight roads are intentionally running trains slower than MAS.

You CAN talk about variable cost: the incremental extra costs (dispatching, maintenance) of letting an Amtrak train run over the railroad. For a short, light train on a theoretically-predictable schedule, that should be quite low. I believe Amtrak trackage rights fees must cover variable costs several times over.

We may be getting close to the day when AI can take over the dispatching of the railroad, and I expect OTP, capacity, and efficiency to all benefit.

AI has a long way to go - a certain “book” site has a video of a bunch of self driving cars that caused a traffic jam…

rohr turbo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:20 pm We may be getting close to the day when AI can take over the dispatching of the railroad, and I expect OTP, capacity, and efficiency to all benefit.

Nasadowsk wrote:AI has a long way to go - a certain “book” site has a video of a bunch of self driving cars that caused a traffic jam…

I'm going to save the mod's some trouble and put this tangent over into it's own thread... namely because I will go on a tear and derail this thread if I don't.

eolesen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:25 pm

taracer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:16 pm Yes, that's kind of what I'm getting at, the ROW's should be nationalized, and should have been at least 40 years ago.

It's not even worth continuing that line of discussion.

Lest we forget, the Fifth Amendment.

As Mr Olsen notes, we won’t pursue this any further … ever.

ryanwc wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 6:58 am Interesting, milord. Thanks.

I wish there were a map of the entire Amtrak system color-coded with host railroads. Or maybe there is?

I know it's possible to sort it out, but not being an expert, I'd love a quick reference.

There was one in Trans mag sometime ago , a search might bring it up .