How do you define the NEC?

A recent post in the NEC delays thread concerning signal issues on the Keystone - Harrisburg line had me wondering... is that route considered part of the NEC? I came to the conclusion "yes", as the Keystone originates at Moynihan and traverses a good deal of the "mainline NEC" to Philly.

So which Amtrak routes do you consider to be part of the NEC? Off the "mainline", do you consider them as branches? How do you define the "mainline". I'll let you know what I think after I hear some replies.

Here's a map:

I tend not to think of the routes as being part of the NEC but the physical rails as part of the NEC. Several Amtrak routes, plus the MARC, SEPTA, NJ Transit, MTA Metro North, CT Rail/Shore Line East, and MBTA Commuter Rail lines run on NEC trackage. Are all of those "part of the NEC?" No, they're not.

So, I define the NEC is the trackage that goes between Washington DC up to Boston, with a heavy-duty branch line out to Harrisburg. This is Amtrak-owned trackage with some owned by Netro-North, MBTA, and other parties, but NOT any freight rail companies (no CSX/NS/CN/etc). This may include New Haven to Springfield, but I don't know who owns that trackage (chime in if you do, open to revision).

This means the NorthEast Regionals that start in Virginia stations don't start on the NEC, but join the NEC in DC... IE they use the NEC.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:30 am I tend not to think of the routes as being part of the NEC but the physical rails as part of the NEC. Several Amtrak routes, plus the MARC, SEPTA, NJ Transit, MTA Metro North, CT Rail/Shore Line East, and MBTA Commuter Rail lines run on NEC trackage. Are all of those "part of the NEC?" No, they're not.

So, I define the NEC is the trackage that goes between Washington DC up to Boston, with a heavy-duty branch line out to Harrisburg. This is Amtrak-owned trackage with some owned by Netro-North, MBTA, and other parties, but NOT any freight rail companies (no CSX/NS/CN/etc). This may include New Haven to Springfield, but I don't know who owns that trackage (chime in if you do, open to revision).

This means the NorthEast Regionals that start in Virginia stations don't start on the NEC, but join the NEC in DC... IE they use the NEC.

I tend to think "if it's electrified with overhead wire, and not for suburban Philadelphia , it's the NEC."
But the caveat is that the New Haven to Springfield line is owned by Amtrak, considered as part of the NEC by Amtrak,
but is not electrified. currently.

NJDOT/NJT does not own any NEC trackage, but NJT owns owns all in-state NEC stations (except EWR, owned
by PANYNJ).

States of New York and Connecticut purchased their share of the New Haven main line from Penn Central, likely
through the USRA.

I have nothing to add to the definition, but I am often unreasonably pleased that the easternmost part of the Northeast Corridor is called the Southwest Corridor and that there is actually nothing illogical about that.

The Springfield Line is indeed owned by Amtrak, and so its considered a branch off the NEC. Its dispatched from Boston alongside the dispatching for the mainline NEC from New Haven to Boston. Even more so it being a branch with several 400-series trains which connect directly to/from mainline trains at New Haven.

Up until the late 1990s/early 2000s, thru cars were switched off the mainline trains to Springfield trains during the then-electric to diesel transfer. Now, just the Vermonter gets a car added SB/removed NB during its engine change at NHV.

I've always considered the portion between Washington and Boston to be the "main line" of the NEC.

Amtrak serves four stations in Metro North territory, so despite their lack of ownership in this corridor, it too is part of the NEC.

I think of the Keystone, Vermonter and the Springfield services as branches off the NEC with each having their own routes as they feed into the NEC...

Everyone: I will start by mentioning that the term "Northeast Corridor" originated during the creation of the Metroliner MU project in the late 1960s by the US DOT. What was considered to be the NEC was only the former PRR route between New York Penn Station and Washington, DC...The former NH electrified territory was added in the early days of Amtrak 1972-1973 with extended Metroliner MU service to New Haven...A major change was how trains operated to/from and through New York in the early 1970s was running via the Penn Station/Hell Gate
Bridge route instead of to/from Grand Central Terminal from the north...

During Amtrak's early years of the 1970s the former New Haven Shore Line route to Boston by way of New London and Providence became a logical extension of the Northeast Corridor to the 456 mile route that we know today... The United Aircraft Turbo service was the prime example of experimental high speed NYP-BOS service back then... Electrifying to Boston added increased service including the Acela trains during the 1990s years...

The electrified Philadelphia-Harrisburg route can be a "branch" of the NEC along with New Haven-Springfield being both passenger-oriented routes with an established ridership base for both...I remember mention that the former RF&P can be a "natural" 110 mile extension of the NEC southward into Virginia to Richmond...

The closest line that is not part of the NEC that would warrant inclusion is the 142 mile New York-Albany Hudson Line segment of the Empire Corridor using the passenger-oriented criteria of the PHL-HAR and NHV-SPG routes.

Of the 456 mile WAS-BOS route the segments that are not owned/controlled by Amtrak is New Rochelle, NY to the NY-CT state line (MTA/MNCR) and to New Haven (CDOT) and from the RI-MA state line (South Attleboro) to Boston by the MBTA...Penndot could be a logical owner for the 103 mile PHL-HAR route in the future possibly...MACTRAXX

(Edited for format only by an admin)

I think the Keystone Corridor qualifies as part if the NEC because:
1. It was conveyed to Amtrak as such and is under wire;
2. Its trains are fully integrated with NEC traffic and handle passengers between New York and Philadelphia.

No route offering one train a day can be considered a Corridor. Washington to Norfolk/Newport News/Roanoke might be allowed as far as Richmond (and Richmond itself), especially considering future plans.

Edit: Looks like MACTRAXX and I were posting at the same time. I agree on the Keystone Corridor, and also think Albany merits consideration, since the fact that it's not often thought of in this context is merely an accident of history. (The quickest and easiest way from Washington or Philadelphia to Albany probably included the B&O bus from Jersey City to the basement of the Chanin Building across 42nd Street from GCT; was that the only bus route that used a turntable at both ends--and a ferry in between?)

I won’t suggest any of this is particularly relevant today, but as a Charlotte resident (and foamer), I like to think about a (soon to arrive) SE Corridor. Once the new Long Bridge is complete across the Potomac, Richmond certainly becomes a functional extension to the ‘real’ NEC with numerous one seat rides to Boston each day. Of course electrification and a downtown station (for all trains) are arguably necessary for this to be considered a true extension of the NEC.

After Richmond, all indications are that the S-Line shortcut to Raleigh is ‘in process’, allowing for much of Richmond’s service to extend down into NC. The NCDOT rail division has said that the S-Line is being designed for electrification (but none is currently planned to be built). I doubt many trains all the way to Boston are likely from Raleigh, but it will certainly be in easy reach of NYP.

That brings us to the NCRR to Charlotte, where five trains per day already connect Charlotte and Raleigh. Its already built for 90mph top speeds and can certainly accommodate higher speeds and electrification since it has a 200’ ROW and is owned by the state (and not NS). While we already have a fancy new platform for our new downtown station, the station building is still sadly many years away. IIRC the SEHSR corridor (with the S-Line being the biggest current gap) has plans for 7 corridor trains per day from Charlotte (current Richmond levels?).

This leaves CLT-Atlanta. The Greenfield, true HSR route has been identified and GADOT is more enthusiastic than I had thought they would be (but…). This is so far in the future I’ll let it lie, but its certainly possible we could see multiple trains per day between Atlanta and NYP at some point.

None of this track has the former Penn Central or New Haven pedigree, but all of it will (likely) be state owned, feature multiple trains per day to the ‘real’ corridor, and allow for higher than usual mixed-freight speeds. For me, these are roughly the same conditions that allow Harrisburg, Albany and Springfield spurs to be considered part of the corridor.

"The Northeast Corridor main line runs 457 miles from Washington, DC to Boston, MA. The corridor runs through eight states, has four different right-of-way owners, and is used by passenger and intercity rail as well as freight. Each day, the corridor – both the NEC main line and connecting corridors to Harrisburg, PA; Spuyten Duyvil, NY; and Springfield, MA – supported over 800,000 railroad trips before the coronavirus pandemic—780,000 on eight commuter railroads and over 40,000 on Amtrak’s intercity services." https://nec-commission.com/corridor/

I completely agree with STrRedWolf, though if the NEC Commission said Spuyten Duyvil too, then all right, Spuyten Duyvil too. Having lived in Virginia for 21 years until last year, I would say that the line south of Washington is not part of the NEC. In fact, I think that it is part of the federally designated Southeast Corridor.

I define the NEC as all tracks with a catenary system of wires above them. That's Boston all the way down to D.C. and the spur west to Harrisburg from Philadelphia. These tracks share the same locomotives using the electrification systems today.

Washington to Boston. Period.

The electrified PRR mainline Washington to Penn, and the NH electrified mainline Penn to New Haven and the previously non-electrified NH mainline New Haven to Providence and Boston that was finally finished ~30 years ago.

Harrisburg is simply where the PRR ran out of money to electrify the PHL-PIT Keystone Corridor... Springfield, Albany, Richmond, etc are all adjacent corridors of their own standing and identity.

Like a tree, you have a trunk and branches. I look at at the DC - Boston portion as the "Grand Trunk" of the NEC, heretofore known as the "Main Line".

Definite Branches:

-Philly to Harrisburg: factors include electrification and through trains (Keystones).

-New Haven to Springfield: while not electrified and requiring a change of engines, the route still has two Regional through trains. I don't consider the Vermonter as it's really an LD. I suppose you could consider the Valley Flyer as part of this, but I'm really on the fence with that one.

-Virginia: VA to Richmond has become an extension of the NEC with many Regionals continuing past DC. Other destinations such as Newport News, Norfolk, etc. are branches of that extension. Again, I don't consider electrification to be an overriding factor (electrification clinches it, but is not necessary here IMO.

Not:

-Empire Service. Not electrified, and just rings to me as separate as it really doesn't "touch" the NEC, even in Moynihan/Penn where the operate off distinct tracks.

Amtrak's Northeast page somewhat supports these conclusions: https://www.amtrak.com/northeast-regional-train