Hours of Service

crazy_nip wrote:I am just saying that alot of the issues up in the northeast (IE: Ex-conrail territories) has to do with crews, specifically yard crews not getting with the program and tying up yards to try to make a point screwing up everything else in the process

Hmmm. Interseting point of view, considering that the crews are only complying with all of the carriers operating, saftey, air brake and train handling rules. Normally, some rules are bent, or yes, broken, in order to expedite service. If, however, the carrier wants to try and stir the pot, so to speak, the crews can simply comply with all rules.

So, what your left with, is the simple fact that rather than screwing up the operation to get back at the carrier, the crews are simply doing what the carrier wants them to do in the first place, comply with the rules they issue. You are left to argue that either the carrier wants their crews to disobey their own rules, or they want the crews to compy with all their rules, and as a result, have operations grind to a halt.

Also, while NS crews are much more compliant with their operating rules in day to day operations, if their crews were to comply with all their rules, their railroad would wind up in the same situation.

In a nutshell, if it aint broke, dont fix it.

There is an old saying, on the railroad, something to the effect of "if you really want to "screw" the railroad, just go by the book". This means, that if you were to follow all of the rules, from the TT, SI and Bulletins, A/B manuals, T/H book, etc., in effect (some of which are contradictory to others), then you will spend so much time "being safe", or adhering to all of the rules, that there wont be time left to railroad. There are rules that say "if a switch is hard to operate, or can't be thrown easily, without using your feet, then don't operate it", and then you realize that there are yards, and industries, where you cant easily operate any switch, or get it to close without applying huge amounts of body weight, with your legs. Some places, none of the switches are easy to operate. So now, you have a crew, or crews, that can't work, due to this ONE FACTOR. Multiply that by every other rule, that won't let you work, and then multiply that by all of the jobs, on that division, then it becomes apparent that it is MIRACULOUS, that any work is accomplished, at all. This is one tiny example, of how the carrier is fighting themselves, in the efficient operation of their roads. Maybe you should go buy a rulebook, timetable, airbrake and trainhandling book, special instructions, etc., for one piece of railroad you are familiar with, then read them all, and "figure it out for yourself", if you can even understand half of what you are reading. By and large, the "rank and file" are not the detriment to the safe, fast and efficient operation of the railroad. The carrier itself, unfortunately, must carrier the largest part of the blame for this, themselves. You must let railroaders railroad. The extensive "micro-management" mindset, so common today, will be the downfall of those carriers, implementing such poor managerial strategies, in the first place. Regards

In the mid-90s, in certain parts of a particular northeastern railroad, there was a phenomenon known as the "safety rodeo." A safety rodeo was a management sponsored competition, either within a terminal or between terminals, wherein "select" crews were given an opportunity to demonstrate their safety prowess in action.

Participants were given normal switching tasks to perform. They were judged by observers for rules compliance. I had a chance to be one of the judges on one occasion.

My assigned crew was given a series of switching moves to make safely. Bottom line is they took almost 4 hours to couple their locomotive to 6 cars on a yard track, set 2 of the cars to another track, and recouple the original track with air hoses coupled and systems charged. No joke!

What I couldn't understand was why senior managers thought this was something desirable. I asked around, and no one would give me an explanation for this performance being acceptable.

I'm sure some of these managers -- the very next day -- harshly berated some local trainmaster for the length of time it took his crews to get the trains out.

There are huge gaps within the thought and behavior patterns of railroads these days. Many times there are clear conflicts between what is strictly required by rule, and what is even possible or at best practical.

It seems the railroad management culture is not able to face these situations openly and honestly, leaving employees to do whatever works for them. First and foremost, the unwritten rule is "don't report an injury."

Pervasive enforcement leads to what's known as "malicious obedience," dramatically reducing efficiency and overall performance -- making every day a safety rodeo.

Well said, Mr. LCJ, well said. In the early 90's, on a particular northeast railroad (quite possibly, the same one), we were challenged to hump the maximum amount of cars we could, in an 8 hour shift. No one watched us work, no one was "bird-dogging" us, they only counted the cars, rolling through the master-retarders. At the end of the 8 hour shift, we had humped just over 1000 cars, winning us coats, hats, etc., for this accomplishment. An average set on the hump, was 400-450 cars per shift. Were corners cut ? Sure they were. Were rules "bent" ? You better believe it. Did the cars get humped ? Yes, and best of all, no one was hurt, and no equipment was damaged. The following shift did less than 200 cars that night. (none left to hump, I suspect) Had we worked by the "letter of the law", following that rule book, we might have humped 100-150 cars, in that same 8 hours, working without lunch, again. We were told what to do, then we were left alone, to do it. NOTHING speaks louder than the lesson learned that night.

What Golden-Arm stated above about screwing the company (i.e. continuing to operate switches that are tough to through in order to keep servicing the customer instead of waiting days or weeks for them to be fixed) is the type of ball busting I meant when said the Selkirk guys were busting balls.

That's correct even today, if we skipped a customer because the switch was hard to through...............it may be weeks before they would get serviced As long as it isn't so tough to operate that I would get injured, I'm gonna service that customer not to be a hero, but because in the long-run these customers are the ones who sign my paycheck every Friday.

I'm with you, on this one CSX. Many were (are) the times, I have had to get off the engine, and help someone "bounce" a switch closed, by jumping on it, or snatching a high stand, into the position we wanted to go. Sometimes, those switches will never get attention, for whatever reasons. It does become a matter of, "will we try to keep this customer", or will we follow "the letter of the law". Sounds like those "rebels" are not giving much choice, to the guys at Selkirk, in regards to this. (I can only imagine that the B&A wont be far behind, in the "new" ways of doing things) ( I'm a rebel too, so no slight intended) Anyone who has worked fopr a "merged" railroad, or a bought-out one, can relate to the "new-guys" feeble attempts, at trying to re-invent the wheel, so to speak. Once everything grinds to a complete stop, and remains stagnant for any period of time, someone a little "brighter", up the food chain, should restore right, to what has been wronged. If I was in Selkirk, I would be following that old railroad addage "keep your mouth shut, and your pockets open, the railroad is trying to make you rich". We've all seen it before, on the roads mentioned above. Good luck to you guys up there, I'm glad it's not me, up there, any more.

I posted it on the New York State forum but not on here for some reason
but the situation at Selkirk has eased.
They called back the spotters from all over the yard, gave the yard people
back a quit if possible and have eased up on the BS.
I don't know if things are totally back to normal yet but my source (a good
one) told me that things were moving again.
Just shows what can happen when the crews STICK TOGETHER.
Someone in Jacksonville bit off more than they could chew on this one.
Noel Weaver

Yes Noel, things seem to be back to normal for the past couple of weeks, with the exception of some large numbers of cars plugging up a few yards still.