Hours of Service

goldenarm, don't use the caps when typing a reply, the caps is used for yelling on the forums, and by your message, you weren't yelling, i just wanted to let you know

charlie6017 wrote:If you know that Waycross, Moncrief or anywhere has "issues", that's fine, but explain what they are. That will add credibility to posts.

the fact is he doesnt know, he is spreading railfan rumors

truth be known he has never even been there or would know where they are

everywhere has "issues" somewhere, but its ignorant to say somewhere is "melting down"

come on people...

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:goldenarm, don't use the caps when typing a reply, the caps is used for yelling on the forums, and by your message, you weren't yelling, i just wanted to let you know

Matt,
On another Thread he told us his Caps Lock won't shut down.

oh ok, thanks

Agreed. I've always asked the question: Do the unions act beligerantly because management treats them poorly, or does management treat unions the way they do because unions are so beligerant? The UTU leadership does not do themselves any favors by flaming the railroads wherever/whenever they can... what if the management publicly flamed the UTU... there would be hell to pay. The situation sucks, quite frankly... and both management AND labor should be ashamed.

It is both. There are always people on BOTH sides (in and out of RRs) that take an antagonistic stand. I work for a major food distributor (I am non-union but also not management). On a recent inspection for certification, a candybar wrapper was found on the food warehouse floor, causing a negative sanitation mark. Management's response was to remove the vending machines from the warehouse breakroom. EVERYONE was punished for the stupidity of ONE. Never mind that someone could still bring something in from outside. Of course, if management tried to punish the offender(s), the unions would probably file a grievance.

F. Loree was once president of the D&H. In an age when many large locos had automatic coal augers to feed the fireboxes, he still employed manual labor. The firemen approached him on the subject of modernizing, that it was near impossible to keep up. Loree's response was he still had to pay the firemen, and a coal scoop was a lot cheaper than machinery. Neither side won that battle.

crazy_nip wrote: its amazing what uncooperative labor can accomplish to try to further their own agenda...

when are they going to realize that conrail is no more and they need to get with the program...

Spoken like a CSX manager with the attitude "we took "you "over "

Labor isn't the problem in Selkirk, "attitude" is. Managements attitude unfortunately. They manage we labor.

"They manage we labor."

thats usually how it works, you are always free to seek alternate employment

good luck finding something that pays as well as your cushy RR job

crazy_nip wrote:"They manage we labor."

thats usually how it works, you are always free to seek alternate employment

good luck finding something that pays as well as your cushy RR job

I'm usually in your corner Mr. Nip. This time, NOT! If it were 1960 the "cushy" adjective would be appropriate. After all, those were the days of 5-6 man crews, and I'll be the first to admit "featherbedding" was alive and well. Times have changed; there's very little dead weight being carried around anymore.

jg greenwood wrote:Times have changed; there's very little dead weight being carried around anymore.

im not saying there is

I am just saying that alot of the issues up in the northeast (IE: Ex-conrail territories) has to do with crews, specifically yard crews not getting with the program and tying up yards to try to make a point screwing up everything else in the process

I find it interresting that the ex-conrail territories are always having the worst issues

with traffic at record levels there are issues throughout the system, but for yard crews to jam things up like this is absurd

and again, for what they are being paid, if they dont like it, I would implore them to seek alternative employment, good luck finding something that pays as well for their education level

Well, Mr. "Nip"

You're initial remark regarding "cushy" jobs barely deserves any response for its ignorance. If an employee has no right to to expect his or her employer to provide a safe work place should we all expect to eventually end up like workers in places like Bangladesh and India?

I am not aware of what the particular issues are at Selkirk. I do know they are directly effecting my livlihood as the railroad I work for interchanges with CSX and the traffic is routed through Selkirk. What I can say and could be backed up with historical data is that CSX has been a poor steward of the B&A route into New England. The end result of their management of the system is a service disruption that is casing real strain to other railroads and industries in the region. Our customers beg for specific shipments to be delivered to their sites while we wait and wait for CSX to show up. Last night CSX showed up with over 140 cars in one delivery. The result is that my railroad had to "scramble" extra crews to try and sort the cars into trains that could be immediately be dispatched to meet the needs of our customers and to try to relieve the almost overwhelming terminal congestion CSX caused. These situations simply did not happen in the last decade of the Conrail era. Workers don't maintain these destructive tactics for trivial reasons. In my opinion they are self destructive in nature but again something must be happening to cause such a disruption.


Finally, I am a railroader and am represented by the BLE&T. I have also been represented by the UTU. I am proud of the fact that on my road, crews work to meet the needs of the customer each day. Our company lives up to its agreement with its workers and maintains appropriate forums to redress issues. In the end the local managers and train service employees on my sub division are an amazing group of people. We work together through horrible weather ( I haven't seen sun light for about a month I think), its rained here every day for weeks on end. We work together through personal disagreements, we work together in the deathly cold of winter and the boiling heat of summer. We don't have the newest equipment, the best track, the most prosperous region to serve but we get the job done.

I won't overgeneralize and say "you sound like management". I will say that more specifically you sound like "poor railroad managment". I've worked with both and recognize the difference. Your repeated insistence that workers who are dissatisfied should find a new job is a sad commentary on some managers and some people who do not understand the dynamics involved in running a railroad.

I sure wish I knew what road had those "cushy jobs" !!! My tired old "hind-end" has to manage an 80 hour work week, with NO ASSIGNED REST DAYS. Haven't been on a road yet, with those "cushy jobs", although I am still searching I think that comment shows a general lack of respect, for the work that the brothers and sisters in the railroad labor pool, put forth, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. My guess would be, you wouldn't make it past your "derail", if you were even fortunate enough to make the cut, and get hired by a railroad, in the craft of train crew person. I have news for you also, sir, the cost of living increases at a rate that far outstrips the rate of pay"raises" offered by the carriers today. Having been represented by the UTU for 4 years, before becoming a BLE member, (17 years) I can assure you 1 thing. We have fought tooth and nail, and have paid the price, in blood, limbs and lives, for every single penny we earn, and I can assure you, there is nothing "cushy" in that. You are so far removed, from the reality of what it takes to live the life of a railroader, that it is amazing !!! regards...

Lets all agree that railroaders have a challenging work-home life balance... and they are fairly compensated for it. And that to improve things, blame has to stop being passed about. Remember, if management's to blame for EVERYTHING that's wrong now, management should also get ALL the credit for when things IMPROVE.

Cowford:
thank you for begrudgingly admitting that railroaders have a challenging balance. Unfortunately it is not so easy to agree on being "fairly" compensated for it. I have worked at a major passenger operation that will not negotiate sick or personal days with its train crews ( they receive none). It gives only one weeks vacation after one year and requires spare board employees to be available six days a week or face charges. What is so fair about that?

The points raised here by some people are not in the spirit of debate but are often times in response to pointed insults, misinformation and prejudice.

Sorry, that is just the way I feel.

SnoozerZ49 wrote: The points raised here by some people are not in the spirit of debate but are often times in response to pointed insults, misinformation and prejudice.

As moderator, I am keeping an eye on these things.

I can agree, that all that is wrong with the railroads today is not the blame of management. But to automatically assume that the work is not being done, due to "featherbedding" crews is laughable at best, assinine at worst. The unfortunate truth is, management carries the major burden, and responsibility for the railroads' ability to operate efficiently, and to "turn a profit". The fact that a carrier chooses to actively persue a campaign of 100% rules compliance, in every aspect of operations, 100% of the time, shows that they, in fact, are clueless to the reality of the needs of the crafts employees needs to actually perform their jobs. This may come as a shock (or maybe not) but most of the rules, in the book, are written for the sole purpose of limiting liability, to the carrier, due to death or injury, resulting from a violation of said rule. Lawyers are now writing, and approving rule books now, and the strict 100% "or-else" attitude of the carriers, ensures the trains wont be made-up on time, and that productivity WILL decline. By the time you get done stopping in the clear, walking up, testing, inspecting then operating a switch, double checking it, then walking back to the move, to ride down to the next switch, you are literally tieing the hands of the people you want to do all of your work. I don't speak this without basis. As a former trainmaster, and a current road foreman of engines, I speak this with first hand knowledge, from both sides of the coin. A carrier cannot "micro-manage" every minute little aspect of it's operation, and expect to acheive any semblance of performance, or attain any goals, unrealistically set, by that same group of managers. Give the men their work, then let them go and do it, and stay the hell out of their hair, and out of their way. They WILL get the work done. As long as "my" guys are working, and accomplishing the tasks assigned to them, they wont hear a word from me. I will stand behind anyone 100%, and "go to the mat" for them, if need be. But, that person had also better be performing his tasks SAFELY and EFFICIENTLY. Having an "agreement", or "non-agreement" position, is a non-issue. The real issue is "ARE YOU GOING TO LET THESE RAILROADERS RAILROAD"? And if you haven't carried a lantern, pulled a throttle, or handed the crews their assignments, dispatched the train, etc., then you are not qualified to "opine" on the compensation paid to, or the work ethics, of those persons. Thats my .02 cents. Regards