Himrod Junction

I finally took a drive over to Himrod Junction on Friday!
I have driven down route 14 between Geneva and Watkins Glen only several billion times in my life, but never made the short jog over to the junction..but I finally did on Friday, and I have a few questions!
(No trains at the junction when I was there.

(Himrod junction is along the west side of Seneca Lake, in central NY.
originally a junction of the PRR and NYC)

1. does anyone know what that huge abandoned industrial complex was?
the one with with big concrete towers?

2. Why did the NYC bother to climb so far up above Seneca lake?
They climb up the hill from "lake level" at Geneva, up to the junction high above the lake, then back downhill to "lake level" again at Watkins Glen..
why didnt they just stay along the lake shore and not have any grades?
I cant imagine the junction with the PRR was *that* important that it made the grades worthwhile..and besides, there were plently of other places not far away that the PRR Elmira branch interchanged with the NYC..
so the reason they climbed the hill cant be because of the junction alone..doesent seem worth it..

3. Does NS still come up to the junction from Corning?
Is that Finger Lakes RR's main connection to the "outside world"?
or do they mainly interchange with CSX out near Syracuse?
or both? (NS and CSX)

thanks,
Scot

'doh! never mind on question #2!
I answered it myself!
just had to think about it..
its NYC from Geneva to the junction, then PRR down to Watkins Glen!
the current Finger Lakes RR line between Geneva and Watkins Glen is half NYC and half PRR!
that explains the "grades"..
ok, got that now..

The building there by the yard is/was a salt mine i think. The NYC part of the line is the old Fallbrook Line to Corning and at one time to the Fallbrook mines in PA, it connects with the Southern Tier line just north of rt 17/86 in Corning.

The big Concrete Towers that you saw are the abandoned Morton Salt Mines. The Mine Closed after finding a lot of shale mixed with the Salt. The Mine was also plaged with nonstop cave ins. To this day the some of the bodys of the fallen miners lost were never recovered.

The NS makes dailey trips at night to Geneva with their interchange traffic, and returns to Corning/Gangmills. CSX interchanges with Fingerlakes RR at Lyons, NY, inbounds get shoved down the east leg of the corning secondary Wye at CP334, outbounds are shoved by the FingerLakes up the west leg of the wye by Franklin St. Lyons near the Irouquis Hotel by CP335 to await CSX P/U. Csx also interchange with the FingerLakes RR at Solvay Hill Yard, Solvay NY.

I think you have been misinformed. The two lines involved are the NYC
Pa. Div. (Fallbrook) which crossed over the PRR Elmira Branch.

There was a connection to allow loaded coaltrains that originated at Southport (Elmira) to contnue North on NYC to Lyons and East to Dewitt.
Emptys returned via the reverse routing.

lvrr 560 wrote:I think you have been misinformed. The two lines involved are the NYC
Pa. Div. (Fallbrook) which crossed over the PRR Elmira Branch.

There was a connection to allow loaded coaltrains that originated at Southport (Elmira) to contnue North on NYC to Lyons and East to Dewitt.
Emptys returned via the reverse routing.

who has been misinformed?
there hasnt been any confusion about what lines were what..

In your post you asked why NYC left lake shore to climb up to

Himrod Junction and then proceed down hill to Watkins Glen.

The NYC did not serve Watkins Glen.
[/quote]

oh yeah..I did ask that..
but I answered my own question 5 minutes later!
(the second post)

Looking through the NYS LIDAR, I found this relocation west of the NYC track south of Himrod. Does anybody know why they relocated the tracks so close to the ones?

I have several views shown. You can only see the relocation on the LIDAR. and the maps. It is now completely wooded-over or else plowed/bulldozed away. It crosses CR-5 aka Dundee-Himrod Road, and Beardsley Road, but is otherwise in the woods or fields.
The Historical USGS maps. If you turn on the 1931-1950 map, you'll see where the railroad was relocated from and to. Here's the relocation as I entered it into OpenStreetMap.

If I were to guess, replacement of bridge over the stream combined with a bit of grade reduction. Might reduce the curvature a bit at the south end too.

Before 1968 this was an important NYC route so it's reasonable it would have seen some improvements through the years.

Russ - Looking at the LIDAR close up, Google street view and the current track charts - it looks like the old alignment was several feet higher at the south end of the project as well as at CR-5. CR-5 is less than 3/4 of a mile south of the north end of the project, so I'd imagine they wanted to get rid of a short vertical drop in that last half mile or so for loaded north-bounds coming into Himrod. Current alignment is steady .98% down (northbound) through the project area. Also appears the old alignment was very narrow - probably original Fall Brook single track. New alignment and grade correction might have been done when line was double tracked. Also note the short curved spurs at each end of the project area (visible on LIDAR) - looks like they ran tracks into gravel pits for all the fill necessary for the new location.

Probably a combination of all of those: installing a new bridge, eliminating a dip, and widening for double tracking. Thanks!

No bodies were left behind in the Morton mine although all the down hole equipment was left in place. The Morton geologists missed the pure salt deposit by about three miles to the south of the mine's location. The FGLK Himrod yard was, back when the mine was fully operational, a six track yard. PC ran two (sometimes three) 100 car consists out of there daily with corresponding in-bound empties.

NS (HO6) interchanges with FGLK in Geneva. For most of the summer this was a daylight job. In the last couple of weeks it has returned to the overnight schedule.

FGLK hauls Himrod traffic (mostly the Watkins Glen salt plants) to and from Geneva using trackage rights on the Secondary. The old PRR line is still active to Penn Yan (actually as far north as Bellona Center) but sees little traffic and has a 10 MPH limit on it.

poppyl

NS H06 still goes on duty at 6 AM in Gang Mills. You are hearing the southbound trip at night because the crew will tie down at Dresden (which I have seen firsthand) or Kashong Point in the afternoon. NS will send another crew to take the train back to Gang Mills in the evening, after MOW wraps up their work for the day.