Hiesler And Stream Generator

Could a steam generator car power a fireless hostler?

Engineer James wrote:Could a steam generator car power a fireless hostler?

Generally, hostlers aren't powered at all (they're humans)

The fireless locomotive... like this 0-4-0... from the Sweet Water RR here in MI.

http://www.railroadmichigan.com/sweet03.jpg

Would a generator car make enough steam to power one?

I read that fireless cookers used 600 pound superheated steam,like a power plant has to heat the water in the boiler. I think a generator car would only make saturated steam of less then 200 pounds. So I doubt it would work,just my opinion though. Joe

Ok, just wonderin. Thanks.

Engineer James wrote:The fireless locomotive... like this 0-4-0... from the Sweet Water RR here in MI.

http://www.railroadmichigan.com/sweet03.jpg

Would a generator car make enough steam to power one?

No, James, Hostlers are employees, who move locomotives around service areas, and from shop tracks, onto trains, and vice-versa. Fireless locos, or fireless cookers, are locos that are powered from a steam source, other than their own boiler. Since they don't have a firebox, they really don't have a boiler either, just a large, mobile steam storage tank.

I am a hostler James and if you try to put a steam hose in me to power me up and we are going to have a problem The little fireless jobs would need a large steam plant ( in the old days most factories were run off steam and heated in the same way. So a large system would be needed for a large plant and that would work best for your little fireless)
But seeings your asking about now a days I would think if you can fill it with steam from a stationary boiler ( ie another steam loco) and just run it about it would work.I read an article online about a gent with a 2 foot gauge Porter fireless and he used compressed air to move it about on short jaunts.

Ok, sorry, i'll change the title of this thread.

Okay, no one seemed to touch the actual merits of the idea.

As for the engine being "charged" off the plant's stationary steam plant, this is true. However, bear in mind, many facilities that had rail service would use an old decomissioned locomotive as the power plant. Even if they had a high-pressure plant (greater the 310psi), the locomotive would be equipped with a regulating valve.

If you look at the average cooker design, you will notice that the pistons are immense in relation to the driver diameters. They were purposely designed this way. A steam engine's pulling ability is based on both the pressure in the cylinders as well as the piston diameter. The higher the pressure, the smaller the cylinders had to be to produce the same amount of power.

So, many cookers were designed to operate in the 90-150 pounds cylinder pressure range. In addition to bleeding the 150-300psi off to a smaller pressure, thereby extending the range, often another range-extention trick was to fill the pressure vessel with some water as well. Under pressure, water boilers at higher temperatures.

A&A's #18 operated at 175psi. If memory serves, at 175psi, water boils at 347degrees F.

If you add water & steam from a high-pressure stationary plant and use the same range extension techniques, you might manage to get a heavy shifter to operate for 8 hours between recharges.

So, in order to answer your question about the cooker... you need to answer a few questions...

The cooker in question... what's its storage & operating pressures (if it is equipped with a regulating valve), the volume of steam used in operating, the pressure and volume produced by the steam generator, how much work you want to perform with the unit, how far you want it to run between charges, or do you intend to pull the generator car with the engine?

Its possible to do what you want, but is it practical?

Can't answer that without more information.

Sorry, for my delay
Maybe I can help you.
The problem on fireless locomotive isn't the pressure at all, because with steam cars it depends on the boiler mounted to the car, which pressure and temperature the delivered steam has.
So I have seen steam cars with boilers delievering superheated steam of 750° F and 290 psi.... But the problem is the volume!
Fireless locoes have, like a thermos jug, onle a reservior. A large insulated drum, which has to be filled.

If you have a power plant, you plug simply the 290 psi steam bus to your thermos jug, and wait until the boiler is filled. And filled is the right word.


Look, here it is done! Notice the coupling to the 290 psi bus of the power plant.

So by now: This bus deliveres no steam, it is water under 290 psi pressure, thus being very hot water, which will, emerged to athmosphere quickly evaporate into steam. Same will happen in the drum of you fireless locomotive, but quickly the volume is need up, and now pressure forms, and as steam would not more accumulate, the pressure rises and quickly you get below the point of having free steam, now only water will flow into the drum and fill it up to approximately two-thirds or three-quarters of drum volume.
So in the cab you have a large water gauge mounted, which shows the level in the drum, as this is your boiler reserve, and a pressure meter, which shows, how hot the water is...
If you have one-third filled, and a pressure of less than 30 psi, it's time for a complete recylce.

So move that engine to the filling station. Now mount the discharge tube to the connector valve, and open the valve. All remaining water will be pushed out by the remaining pressure in the drum, usually as hot jet of water....
After the drum is empty, unbolt the tube, put it back to the mount and get the connector to the steam bus, open the valve again and refill your thermos jug with fresh and plain 290 psi steam / hot water from the bus system.
But consider: For a complete filling you will need 5000 gallons of water with 290 psi... that often much beyond the capacitivy a steam car maybe able to deliver....

That's why a steam car would be a problem... not because of being unable to deliever the steam or the pressure, more because the unability to deliever the amount of steam / water-under-pressure in time in the right amount.

So you need a large boiler to fill your "Thermos jug"....