Green Line Collision 6/1/2022

Yellowspoon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:56 pm When the Government Center Garage collapsed earlier this year, Haymarket was closed and they ran trains between North Station and Union Square. With this event, why did they run busses between North Station and Lechmere? What did they do for the Lechmere-to-Union-Square folks?

A Shuttle Train ran to my knowledge.

It was possible to run full double tracked service between North Station and Union Square, changing ends on one of the North Station (Green Line) platforms and crossing over within the car storage area..

Disney Guy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:20 pm It was possible to run full double tracked service between North Station and Union Square, changing ends on one of the North Station (Green Line) platforms and crossing over within the car storage area..

Additionally it apparently is possible to turn trains back at Haymarket due to a crossover in the old station area to the North (per vanshnookenraggen's track map)

Speed not a factor in the crash:
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/ ... _secondary

This one says speed was a factor.
https://www.masslive.com/news/2022/06/g ... -says.html

The train was doing 9 MPH where the "speed limit" was 7 MPH... that's probably within the slop of the speed indicator. But the point all of these articles missed is what is the speed limit when you're looking at a double red in front of you? ZERO.

True and it's actually a very open area where you could see what's coming if you look.

Maybe they were racing.

What does a double red mean on the green line? Stop, stop and proceed, stop and proceed at restricted speeds?
Under what conditions are the cars permitted to couple up?

STOP . . . period.

Just read this report:

“It’s still undetermined why [the striking train] did not stop at a red signal but in doing so struck a train coming out of the loop between trolleys 3855 and 3707, causing the rear truck of 3855 and the front trucks of 3707 and 3614 to derail,” Culp said, referring to the identifying numbers of the train cars involved in the collision.

So apparently the train on the mainline was at fault. Hard not to notice a train coming out of the loop in that area especially if it was that far out and right in front of you. Really inexcusable.

At double red(usually at automatic switches), a car cannot go beyond it unless it changes to a non-red aspect and the rail reads ok. Only inspectors or above can safely allow a car to go thru a double red after they sure it is safe to do so. Dispatcher cannot allow a car to go thru double red, only on scene official. At single red, a car can proceed at low speed(6 mph?) after waiting one minute and observe the rail ahead, if the single red doesn't clear and be prepared to stop.

Everything Type 6 said is correct except that it’s 10mph to the next signal on a single red holding.

In railroad terms, double reds are at home signals and are absolute, single reds are automatics and are passive.

Intermediate signal failure? A loose wire for one could cause one red to not illuminate and car going by might cause loose wire to re connect. MBTA lack of maintenance may be showing. wonder if the signal system has the expensive non illumination warning system?

Even if there was a malfunctioning signal the mainline train ran into the side of a train which was far out of the loop and entering the mainline right in front of him/her. It hit it just about midway between the two cars. The subway is two-tracks wide at that point and there is no way the operator couldn't see that train right in front of their train.

Blatant negligence or possibly a medical event but I haven't heard anything along those lines.

“West Point” wrote: wonder if the signal system has the expensive non illumination warning system?

It doesn’t. I’ve seen double reds with one red out, but there shouldn’t be any question that the signal isn’t a block signal. With the number of trips an operator makes through the subway every day, it’s well within reason to expect they know where the junctions are.