• GG1 paint scheme question, did Pennsylvania make them black with 5 stripes?

  • Discussion relating to the PRR, up to 1968. Visit the PRR Technical & Historical Society for more information.
Discussion relating to the PRR, up to 1968. Visit the PRR Technical & Historical Society for more information.
  by JRDM
 
The reason I asked the question in the subject is I wanted a Brunswick Green GG1. I bought a Broadway Limited (BLI) GG1 model from a major model train retailer with this paint scheme thinking the blacks in the product were probably accidentally squashed to black. I couldn't find any black with five stripe pennsy GG1 paint scheme so I assumed someone wasn't paying attention to the colors when processing the photos. I get the model and it really is black or maybe a very dark gray. It doesn't look like a dark green to me. If it's dark green it's darker than I expect based on photos of other runs of this model and the prototype units online. The web pages I found describing GG1s don't describe a black with 5 stripes.

The description on the box says "DGLE, 5-stripe, gold leaf lettering & stripes". BLI doesn't list them in their web site anymore. I don't know what DGLE is supposed to mean if not dark green. I also used my computer's color dropper tool to see if there's a trace of green in the product listing photos and I get black / dark gray.

I attached a screen shot of the online product listing photo, the thing looks the same in person. Was there really a scheme like this? Was the model painted wrong? Is brunswick green meant to be so dark that it's almost black / gray?

I'm not sure what to make of it.

I apologize if this is off topic but I am trying to square this thing up with the prototype.
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  by jamoldover
 
DGLE stands for "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel", which is the official name of what railfans typically have called "Brunswick Green". Depending on the light, it can look anything from dark green all the way down to black - I believe the old formula for mixing it (using model paints) was something like a dropperfull of green paint mixed with a full bottle of black (or something close to that).

I agree with you that the screenshot (and therefore the model, if you're describing it correctly) doesn't appear to be the correct color - if anything, there seems to be less green in the mix than red/blue (when I use the color picker in my image viewer). Have you tried looking at the model in different types of light (sunlight, LED, flourescent, etc.) to see if that makes a difference?
  by MACTRAXX
 
JRDM - From looking at the HO model of GG1 4895 with PRR GG1 livery which looks fine on Black -
Would you like to re-paint your Broadway Limited model in Brunswick Green?

I remember that there was past discussion about the difference in color between PRR Brunswick Green
and Penn Central (add Amtrak and NJDOT) Black in the PRR, PC and Model Train Forums here at RR.Net.

Searching RR.Net forums for GG1 topics as research will be helpful...The Penn Central Forum along with
the PRR Forum in the Fallen Flags section is a good start...MACTRAXX
  by JRDM
 
jamoldover wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:16 pm DGLE stands for "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel", which is the official name of what railfans typically have called "Brunswick Green". Depending on the light, it can look anything from dark green all the way down to black - I believe the old formula for mixing it (using model paints) was something like a dropperfull of green paint mixed with a full bottle of black (or something close to that).
Thank you for explaining the term. I hadn't been able to find what it meant on previous searches.

I did find a post on trains.com:

"Brunswick Green is an extremely dark green shade practically indistinguishable from black."

There's a lot of disagreement about what color it is really supposed to look like.
I agree with you that the screenshot (and therefore the model, if you're describing it correctly) doesn't appear to be the correct color - if anything, there seems to be less green in the mix than red/blue (when I use the color picker in my image viewer). Have you tried looking at the model in different types of light (sunlight, LED, flourescent, etc.) to see if that makes a difference?
Yes the screen shot is a photo of BLI's model.

So far it looks pretty similar under any kind of light I use. Maybe tomorrow I will try noon sunlight. I can tell it's not black mainly because the (truck?) frames are black.
MACTRAXX wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 7:45 pm JRDM - From looking at the HO model of GG1 4895 with PRR GG1 livery which looks fine on Black -
Would you like to re-paint your Broadway Limited model in Brunswick Green?
I think it looks very nice as-is but I was hoping for something that was more obviously green. I'd rather not repaint it, I don't think I can do as nice a job as factory.

I'll probably leave it be. The store listing photo accurately represents the product, somehow I was assuming it was a mistake in the photography or handling of the photos afterwards.

Thanks everyone.
  by jamoldover
 
For what it's worth, I did a little more searching for information about the color, and came across the "official" formula for DGLE per PRR specs, which is one part dry measure of chrome yellow pigment to 40 parts gloss black liquid base.
When new, that comes out to an extremely dark color with maybe a hint of green and looks almost exactly like what's on the GG1 model. Here's an example of a freshly-painted U25B: https://d28lcup14p4e72.cloudfront.net/2 ... 0U-25B.jpg

Based on that, I'd actually say BLI got it right for a locomotive fresh out of the paint shop, and what most manufacturers use is actually much too green.
  by eolesen
 
Yup. I tried to recreate it for a web theme once... Brunswick has a RGB code of 17-26-23 and it's almost impossible to see the green unless you have it side by side with black, and even then it's pretty difficult..