• Gateway clears it's last Federal approval

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by photobug56
 
There are more things that need to be done but that will help. I am guessing that when all is done, trains will be able to run faster - though that includes the results of rebuilding the existing 2 track tunnel and 2 tracks between there and Newark (assuming that's part of the project). Eventually, depending on who you believe, we SHOULD build a connection to GCT, presumably LIRR level (because of the type of 3rd rail it uses - or the main levels with CAT) for through running, also have Amtrak able to go to Long Island along with NJT, and LIRR to NJ. Lots to think about here. Maybe added tracks at Penn. Etc.
  by Hawaiitiki
 
Red Wing wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:36 am Maybe Sir you should look at another German speaking country, Deutchland. The Stuttgart 21 should have opened 2 years ago and now projected to open in 2025. It is also in an urban environment like Gateway and not going under a mountain with little to no utilities, other tunnels and, foundations to contend with like the base tunnel projects.

Oh it's had cost overruns and issues with politics too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21
After living in Deutschland for five years, I can say that the "State of Good Repair" on the existing railways far far far exceeds North America. However, "from scratch" infrastruture projects hit all of the same roadblocks (and some times worse). For some decade long debacles in addtion to Stuttgart21, google Berlin Brandenburg Flughafen, the zweite Stammstrecke in Munich, and read into Germany's reluctance to carry out any significant inland upgrades to the approaches of the Brennerbase Tunnel and the Gotthardbase Tunnel
  by WhartonAndNorthern
 
west point wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:44 pm It is not advisable anymore to put 4 tracks on one bridge span. 2 separate 2 track bridge spans have much better chance of one span surviving a derail or boat bridge strike.

An example is the WALK bridge replacement of a four track swing bridge with 2 two track lift bridges
I imagine that's more for ease of replacement and minimizing disruption. I believe the current plans are to build the first set of lift towers practically kissing the old bridge. They'll shut down the line for a long weekend, remove the old bridge, and install the first lift span (two tracks). They'll operate as a two track railroad while building the second set of lift towers where the old bridge was.
Bracdude181 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:11 am4 tracks into NYC sounds like a lot more time slots can be added. Will be interesting to see how many trains NJT and Amtrak may add.
Notionally it is being sold to the FTA as a capacity improvement but without Gateway their arguments were it's a capacity improvement due to higher track speeds on the new bridge.
  by kitchin
 
I guess everybody knows this, but the part at the end is significant.
The rules prohibit most marine traffic on the Hackensack River from crossing under the bridge at Kearny, N.J., between 5 and 10 a.m. and 3 and 8 p.m.

While the Coast Guard receives far fewer requests to open the bridge than it once did, it concludes in adopting the final rule that “any permanent closure of the bridge is not an option.”
https://www.menendez.senate.gov/newsroo ... idge-rules

The Coasties received only three comments on the rule (!?). So says this article:
Of the three comments received by the Coast Guard about the permanent rule, one suggested permanently closing the bridge. However, officials said that isn’t an option because some marine traffic still requires the bridge to open. The last two requests to open the bridge were on Oct. 7 and Dec. 6 (2019).
https://www.nj.com/traffic/2020/02/the- ... teful.html

The I-95 Potomac River bridge went through this process and the last ship, carrying newsprint for the Washington Post, stopped using it, as I recall.
  by ExCon90
 
photobug56 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:18 am Eventually, depending on who you believe, we SHOULD build a connection to GCT, presumably LIRR level (because of the type of 3rd rail it uses - or the main levels with CAT) for through running, also have Amtrak able to go to Long Island along with NJT, and LIRR to NJ. Lots to think about here. Maybe added tracks at Penn. Etc.
There is only one level at Penn Station, with 21 tracks -- the lowest-numbered used by NJT, the middle ones (the longest) by Amtrak, and the highest by LIRR, with some overlap at various times according to traffic demand, often requiring last-minute changes to deal with delays. Bottom line is the bag stays the same size no matter how much various people want to stuff into it.
  by photobug56
 
GCT has 2 levels of tracks. Penn, of course, has only one. And with so few tracks and no run through for LIRR, run through only for NJT to get to Queens for storage, lots of breakdowns of switches, signals and trains, it does have a capacity problem.
  by RRspatch
 
photobug56 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:28 pm Question - is the Daily News right in saying that the Portal Bridge(s) does not need to be super high, could be much lower, openable for the once in a while traffic underneath, and cost maybe 10% of what is planned? And could all 4 tracks worth of bridge be built together?
One of the things Amtrak and NJT are trying to get away from with the new Portal bridge is the use of Mitre Rails. If I recall correctly the MAS over a mitre rail joint is 40 MPH. The two moveable bridges on the Baltimore (now Mid Atlantic) division at Perryville and Bush River had rails bolted across the gap where the bridges opened as to allow a much higher speed over the bridge than the 40 MPH(?) that would be required for mitre rail joints. One summer day I took a dispatchers road trip to the Bush River bridge to watch the twice scheduled weekend opening. A small army of MW workers would go out onto the bridge to unbolt and move eight short sections of track (for two tracks) to open the bridge. Once the river traffic had passed the whole process was reversed. The whole operation looked like the proverbial "Chinese fire drill". The same operation also happened at Perryville though on a less frequent basis.

BTW - wasn't it a miss-aligned mitre rail on the Portal bridge that caused an Amtrak to derail many years ago?
  by west point
 
kitchin wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:37 am
RRspatch wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:04 am BTW - wasn't it a miss-aligned mitre rail on the Portal bridge that caused an Amtrak to derail many years ago?
Yes, Nov. 23, 1996. See page 7, a.k.a. page v, in the NTSB report: https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-stud ... IR9701.pdf
I could not believe the number of persons needed to keep the Portal bridge in operation. 12 operating persons, 4 engineers, the B&B crew for major work listed in report. An average wage wag would be $200k per month. Evidently the problem of miter rails for swing bridges are an industry wide problem. Just another reason to replace swing bridges with either flyovers, lift bridges, or Bascule bridges. No wonder Amtrak wants to replace all the bridges with high clearance fixed bridges. Anyone know if the planned Connecticut River replacement will be a draw?

Anyone know when the last swing bridge new or replacement was built in this country?
  by Greg Moore
 
This makes me wonder if/when Amtrak and/or NYS replace the Livingston Avenue Bridge in Albany what they'll go with. It's a swing bridge now. Given its proximity to a curve and the station, an MAS of 40mph isn't really an issue. And there's really no room to go higher.
  by kitchin
 
Sometimes it's not about partisan politics. It's still about politics, but regional politics! "Jersey and Amtrak are as pleased as punch with the wasteful Portal North Bridge." The editorial calls for focusing on the tunnels instead, and for repairing the old tunnels now instead of waiting until the new ones are built. Traditional newspaper editorial boards (not pundit op-eds, not news) have a wealth of research and experience to draw upon. I don't think TV or digital has ever matched them.
  by PHLSpecial
 
That article didn't do a good job in convincing me to stop the project. The sole they cite is cost. I guess they hate ecominal benefits. Even they were to rehab the tunnels now, it would be 6 trains per hour, even closing the one tunnel every night seems like a nightmare. Also the Moynihan Train Hall sucks, no seating.