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photobug56 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:12 pm Understood, but how many billions should such a pair of bridges cost? Everything about this project screams Taj Mahal - IOTW extremely expensive, along with far more expensive than anywhere else.

Are we comparing "bridge over water" to "bridge over water"?

Does the replacement for the Portal Bridges have to cost a few $billion? Part of resistant to Gateway is that it is projected to cost, what, $13 Billion for tunnel, one bridge set, and doubling the tracks tunnel to Newark. My guess is that if a major railroad like CSX or NS or BNSF or UP were doing this it would cost maybe a quarter of that and probably be better built.

I think I remember an engineering firm once say that the Portal Bridge replacement would be far cheaper if it was built as a four track swing bridge. NJT and Amtrak seem hellbent on a bridge that doesn’t move though...

Swing bridges are out of favor with the Coast Guard. They do not like the swing pivot as it reduces the opening of the bridge in half. Note none of the replacement bridges on the Mississippi and Missouri are swing bridges. Someone here can supply us with the Coast Guard specifications. Walk bridge is going from a 4 track swing to two 2 track lift bridges.

No matter how well engineered a moveable bridge is sooner or later something will break placing the bridge out of service for maybe just service for a couple hours. Any idea how many employees Amtrak has on standby to fix the problems when the Portal swing bridge does not close?

Supposedly there is very little boat traffic underneath.

... and such traffic as there is is in very little boats -- barges, in fact; I suspect that the tallest thing that requires opening the bridge today is the pilothouse on the tug that's towing the barge. I've never seen the regulations; is there an inflexible rule that a fixed bridge over a navigable waterway -- any navigable waterway -- must be so many feet above mean high tide, regardless of the greatest height that can be reached by a vessel capable of navigating the depth of the waterway underneath? Do the regulations require these bridges to be high enough to clear a Panamax containership? Because there ain't gonna be any on the Hackensack River.

@photobug Yeah supposedly. I’m unfamiliar with the area so I’m not certain. Somewhere it was mentioned that maybe one boat every week or so is actually big enough to require the bridge to be open for it to pass.

@west point Yea that’s one of the reasons why the new Raritan River Bridge is a drawbridge. Allows bigger ships into the port on the west side. That report I mentioned did say swing bridge specifically but I’m not sure sure if they took any Coast Guard regulations into account. Seems to me that NJT and Amtrak want a non movable bridge so that’s less maintenance down the road.

Me personally I’m just wondering where all the construction sand is coming from. Would anyone here know? If it’s coming from Clayton then it’s possible that it may come out by rail from a pit in Woodmansie. That means more trains in my area lol.

@ExCon90 That’s something else I was wondering about. West of the bridge the river narrows and has a lot more curves. You mentioned tugs moving barges but what other big traffic would go that way that would require the bridge to open for safe passage?

It's been awhile since I retired, but I don't think there's been anything but barges up there for years.

How high is the planned replacement versus actual need?

It's been awhile since I retired, but I don't think there's been anything but barges up there for years, except pleasure boats -- and any pleasure boat that would require raising a bridge can go plenty of places besides the Hackensack River.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:15 pm How high is the planned replacement versus actual need?

The new bridge will be 50' above the water line:
https://nec.amtrak.com/project/portalnorthbridge/

Why only two tracks? Wouldn’t three be better for the amount of trains that part sees?

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:00 pm

photobug56 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:15 pm How high is the planned replacement versus actual need?

The new bridge will be 50' above the water line:
https://nec.amtrak.com/project/portalnorthbridge/

Why is the bridge expected (before cost over runs, graft, etc.) to cost 3 to 4 billion?

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:25 am Why only two tracks? Wouldn’t three be better for the amount of trains that part sees?

2 bridges, 4 tracks total since the overall line including the tunnels new and old will have 4 tracks from NYP to Newark.

4 tracks into NYC sounds like a lot more time slots can be added. Will be interesting to see how many trains NJT and Amtrak may add.