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  • Fredrick Douglass Tunnel (Replacement of the Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel)

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Fredrick Douglass Tunnel (Replacement of the Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel)

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1427380  by Jeff Smith
 
http://www.baltimoresun.com/bs-md-ci-bp ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...
The new tunnel system would eliminate the current tunnel's sharp curves and allow Amtrak and MARC trains to travel at higher speeds under the city. It also would ease movement of commercial freight along the line, though the limitations of the existing tunnel already have pushed freight companies to find alternate routes through the region.
...
The selected replacement option would create a 3.67-mile stretch of rail that sweeps in a high west-to-east arc from the MARC station to Penn Station.

It would include a new rail bridge over Mulberry and Franklin Street and an open-cut section that transitions into a southern tunnel portal west of Payson Street between Riggs Avenue and Mosher Street. From the southern portal, a two-mile tunnel would be bored to the northern portal just east of Interstate 83.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1427391  by Gilbert B Norman
 
I read Mr. Smith's immediate and I think of Austria, where I have visited for the past three years - and will again this August.

They have a standing army of some 20 K; they have maybe 50 combat aircraft. They have no Navy, as they are landlocked. They are not in NATO; they are surrounded by soverign states that are.

But yet, to get a better access to St. Anton am Arlberg, they relocated some 3 miles of railroad - including a tunnel. They built a some 3 mile tunnel to better access Vienna eliminating a backup move (actually a run in run out reversed).

Now, as May TRAINS reported, they are building a 17 mile tunnel to "go under" the Semmering Pass - the main route for traffic Vienna-Graz-Venice.

What they do not spend on defense, they can direct to social programs, which includes passenger rail transit. I found out during my 2015 trip, when I felt faint (never fell but I grabbed on). But someone called #144 and here they come. This "knockout" blonde paramedic, who spoke better English than I, took my vitals, and accepted that I did not want further treatment. She then wanted my ID, so I coughed up my passport. I said to her "I guess I'm looking at a €500 bill for you coming out". "Mr. Norman, you are in Austria; healthcare is a right for our citizens and visitors".

I'm hardly saying that is where we should allocate our tax $$$; but it is how they choose to allocate theirs.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1427491  by ExCon90
 
Do it by all means. About 2 hours from Vienna to Graz, a beautiful city (second after Vienna, ahead of Salzburg and Innsbruck, and rarely heard of), with a nearly-vertical funicular and a nice compact streetcar system, then back over the Semmering again to Vienna in time for dinner. My own feeling is that in addition to the surviving locals, by popular demand they'll have to schedule a through train over that route at least every 2 hours for the sightseers; business travelers can have the tunnel.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1427635  by east point
 
From what has been read the real bottleneck of the B&P tunnel is that it is only 2 tracks. Almost every day read that one or more WASH bound MARC trains are waiting for Amtrak to clear so they can follow. There are northbound delays as well if a northbound MARC has to wait at west Baltimore for Amtrak to clear.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1427711  by STrRedWolf
 
It's both, actually. 2 tracks at 30 MPH. The current replacement design is 4 tracks at 79 MPH, with tracks 3 and A at West Baltimore shuffling into tracks 4 and 5 at Penn without any reconfiguration of the CHARLES interlocking. 1 and 2 goes to 6 and 7.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1427792  by Arlington
 
^ as far as I know the Federal FRA planning has only ever included rail tunnel options for getting from West Baltimore to Penn Station. I don't recall it ever involving any facilities at the stations themselves.

If somebody was planning a pedestrian tunnel connecting Baltimore Penn Station to the Baltimore light rail system that was likely a state MTA project.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1427882  by east point
 
Today Marc is delayed due to the congestion of 2 tracks B&P tunnel.
Fair use pasting.

MARC Service Alert <[email protected]>
To
MTA Maryland Alerts Subscriber
Today at 9:47 AM
MARC 425 (9:25 depart Balt) is operating 10 - 12 minutes behind schedule due to following two Amtrak trains out of Baltimore Penn Station.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1427961  by ExCon90
 
Another example (like NYP) of a centenarian facility subjected to a traffic mix never contemplated (and understandably not foreseen) at the time it was constructed. Who in the 19th century would have imagined the current commuter demand between Baltimore and DC? The pattern for many years was an average of about 1 express train an hour between those points, plus those operating south of Washington, and a few locals in between, although there were more freight trains than today.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1428016  by east point
 
What will be interesting is how the tunneling work is scheduled. 4 separate tunnels including the one that ducks under another. Just how many TBMs can be used simultaneously will be determined later but that will definitely affect how long the project will take. Adjacent tunnel bores will need cross connection walkways. If one tunnel bore can be come operational when 2 are complete is another question to answer.

Also how many hours a day can the work be done ? The many trucks hauling away boring spoil will make a lot of noise.

Re: Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel Discussion (Replacement

 #1428095  by STrRedWolf
 
It's going to be a mess no matter what, because it's not just the tunnels. You got a new bridge and station to build as well, given the chosen alignment, and the need to keep existing service in play until they're ready to connect the tracks by West Baltimore.
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