Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

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Ken W2KB
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Ken W2KB » Wed May 01, 2019 4:08 pm

JasW wrote:Ah, yes, I see what I did -- where the LVRR and CNJ come right next to each other west of Bloomsbury, I picked up the LVRR line. Still, I see a connection from the CNJ main to the LVRR there. It's only 5 miles or so to P-burg from that point; couldn't that stretch be shared with Norfolk Southern? The LVRR goes right to the old CNJ station in P-burg. (I note this is probably all better suited for the CNJ forum)
A year or two ago NS stated publicly that it would not permit passenger service to operate over its trackage in the area as future freight operations were expected to increase and fully use track capacity. If NJT (or Amtrak which was part of the reason for the NS statement) were to decide to establish such service it would have to pay for substantial improvements to NS likely including a third track. So it would be costly either way.
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pateljones
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by pateljones » Wed May 01, 2019 10:17 pm

I am dismayed to read in the newspaper that NJ Transit needs to redo the tunnel engineering study. The new NJT estimate for when service to Andover will start running is 2025 at the earliest.
https://m.citizensvoice.com/news/passen ... -1.2467473" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TSTII
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by TSTII » Thu May 02, 2019 2:41 pm

New Jersey Transit bought the cutoff from a private owner for $21 million in 2001. At the moment, plans call for the train to run 133 miles between Scranton and Hoboken, New Jersey, where another train would carry commuters into New York.
Let's hope the reporter means PATH :P

JasW
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by JasW » Fri May 03, 2019 6:48 am

TSTII wrote:
New Jersey Transit bought the cutoff from a private owner for $21 million in 2001. At the moment, plans call for the train to run 133 miles between Scranton and Hoboken, New Jersey, where another train would carry commuters into New York.
Let's hope the reporter means PATH :P
Who is going to commute 133 miles, let alone do that and then take PATH into Manhattan? The DL&W used to run the "Merchant's Express," which left its origination in Scranton at 6:15 am , made local stops through E. Stroudsburg, and then hit only Blairstown, Dover, and Newark before arriving in Hoboken at 9:35 am. You'd probably have to move that Scranton departure up an hour to 5:15 am to get someone into the city by 9. Whoever that someone who wants to spend 3 1/4 hours on an NJT train is....

ebtmikado
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by ebtmikado » Sat May 04, 2019 7:52 am

"Who is going to commute 133 miles, let alone do that and then take PATH into Manhattan?"

Shore Line East and Metro North trip from New York to New London is 123 miles.
A goodly number of commuters ride these trains.

Lee

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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Sat May 04, 2019 11:10 am

ebtmikado wrote:"Who is going to commute 133 miles, let alone do that and then take PATH into Manhattan?"

Shore Line East and Metro North trip from New York to New London is 123 miles.
A goodly number of commuters ride these trains.

Lee
Speeds are a hell of a lot higher. The Scranton service would not go as fast on its tracks.

I'm still iffy on service west of East Stroudsburg, maybe Analomink.
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njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sat May 04, 2019 1:45 pm

E. Stroudsburg is a good town to have NJT rail service end and for those who are continuing onto Scranton, provide feeder bus service as well as other towns enroute like Mt. Pocono. There’s no way that a person would want to spend a few hours riding in NJT equipment.

As for commuting from an SLE station on SLE and connecting to MNR, I’m sure that people do that but if it’s traveling to NYC, that’s a long trip. There are probably people who might commute to NYC a few times a week from New London. The closer you get to New Haven, the more daily NYC riders you might get but it’s still a long commute from New Haven to Manhattan and for a while, there will be a lot of infrastructure construction on the New Haven Line so expect longer than usual trip times, even on an express train.

rr503
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by rr503 » Sat May 04, 2019 11:02 pm

From a planning perspective, it's a really really bad idea to induce people to live that far from jobs. We already have a sprawl issue in this region, despite areas closer to the core being so underdeveloped. Fixing that -- which, of course, requires public transit $$$ -- should be the focus, not these low-ridership extensions into the urban fringe. I love the cutoff as much as the next guy, but there are many more efficient ways to spend limited cash in this day and age; time to leave this to die.

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lensovet
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by lensovet » Sun May 05, 2019 2:41 am

pateljones wrote:I am dismayed to read in the newspaper that NJ Transit needs to redo the tunnel engineering study. The new NJT estimate for when service to Andover will start running is 2025 at the earliest.
https://m.citizensvoice.com/news/passen ... -1.2467473" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
nothing in that article says anything about needing to "redo" the engineering study. no study would take just a few months (says it will be done by midsummer). instead this is just a quick check to make sure that the original plan for restoring the tunnel is still valid given the changes in its condition over the past four years.

in terms of the timeline, 2025 sounds overly pessimistic, but maybe they are tired of having to revise that date every year. keep in mind that they are also limited in when they can do construction due to environmental issues.
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SecaucusJunction
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by SecaucusJunction » Sun May 05, 2019 12:58 pm

If they can get to Andover by 2025, I think you should be thrilled.

They’ll be lucky to get that far before we’re in retirement homes.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

WashingtonPark
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by WashingtonPark » Sun May 05, 2019 3:43 pm

lensovet wrote: in terms of the timeline, 2025 sounds overly pessimistic, but maybe they are tired of having to revise that date every year. keep in mind that they are also limited in when they can do construction due to environmental issues.
Are you kidding? NJT can't get between Camden and Woodbury (9 miles) before 2025 and they've been working on it 10 years already.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sun May 05, 2019 6:26 pm

I think 2025 is a safe bet that service to Andover will begin.

The communities in Northeastern PA, in general, are very spread out. In fact, the bus stations for Martz aren't located in many downtown areas, other in the cities like Scranton and Wilkes-Barre. If you are taking Martz from Stroudsburg, many of the buses stop at a stop located in Delaware Water Gap. Other buses stop at a park n ride lot a few miles to the east of Downtown E. Stroudsburg.

If the train ever gets extended across the Delaware to E. Stroudsburg, then the station will be right in the heart of Downtown. I saw the old E. Stroudsburg station in person last year and noticed that there is so much room to build a true station with a lot of parking there as well as a train yard.

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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Sun May 05, 2019 7:13 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:I think 2025 is a safe bet that service to Andover will begin.

The communities in Northeastern PA, in general, are very spread out. In fact, the bus stations for Martz aren't located in many downtown areas, other in the cities like Scranton and Wilkes-Barre. If you are taking Martz from Stroudsburg, many of the buses stop at a stop located in Delaware Water Gap. Other buses stop at a park n ride lot a few miles to the east of Downtown E. Stroudsburg.

If the train ever gets extended across the Delaware to E. Stroudsburg, then the station will be right in the heart of Downtown. I saw the old E. Stroudsburg station in person last year and noticed that there is so much room to build a true station with a lot of parking there as well as a train yard.
Realistically, East Stroudsburg would probably be opposed to a downtown yard, and I agree with them on that. The old Gravel Place Yard is still open at Northwoods Paper. It is out of downtown enough that it would be less disturbing to the locals and not ruin downtown.
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R36 Combine Coach
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sun May 05, 2019 7:56 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:I think 2025 is a safe bet that service to Andover will begin.
Andover by 2025 if the tracks only made it to Stanhope? Still 3.5 miles to go.
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kilroy
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by kilroy » Tue May 07, 2019 2:01 pm

And when they built the transcontinental railroad they built now many miles PER DAY? I know the track quality was poor but it was all done by hand.

I wonder what they would think of us if they could see this debacle.
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