Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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daybeers
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by daybeers » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:21 pm

It all depends on money, and unfortunately CT is broke.

If Amtrak would get its act together and stop dragging their feet about finishing the necessary work for Shore Line East to run the M8s, yes, the Shoreliners could (and were supposed to a while ago) go to the Hartford Line. Sidings need to be electrified and station upgrades need to be completed at Madison and Clinton first, though, but couldn't they start testing the M8s as soon as electrification is finished? Of course Amtrak doesn't want to get them certified, and CT claims the M8s are needed on the New Haven Line, which is true, but Shore Line East is sooo bad right now, even CT's own DOT admitted that it's a "wreck".

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by DutchRailnut » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:37 pm

The M-8's may never run on SLE , internal rumblings suggest that to many obstacles are being thrown in, to prevent their use.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:42 pm

At this point, I don't think the M8s will operate on SLE trains.

Getting back to the Hartford Line, it sounds like the Shoreliners will run on those trains after the multilevels replace them on Metro North lines. As for lower Springfield Line infill stations, the future North Haven Station is set to be where many roads meet. I think it would be built where the former Amtrak station was. What would be interesting to note is if CDOT decides to open up N. Haven, which direction will the majority of people take the train to. I am thinking that during the rush hour, passengers will take the train toward both Downtown New Haven as well as toward Hartford and Springfield. During rush hour, people who board at N. Haven might even want to connect to Metro North in New Haven. During off peak hours and on weekends, I'm sure that the ridership will be a little more geared toward those heading toward Hartford and Springfield. I am not too sure if many people who go to other cities in Fairfield County or NYC would board a train at North Haven to connect to Metro North. Being that N. Haven is very close to New Haven and W. Haven Stations, people will probably still want to drive to get Metro North.

NH2060
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by NH2060 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:26 am

DutchRailnut wrote:The M-8's may never run on SLE , internal rumblings suggest that to many obstacles are being thrown in, to prevent their use.
I think it's time the rest of us just give up on that dream even though they were built with said use in mind and they did not come cheap. At this rate we'll see CTrail painted Siemens Chargers on SLE before the M-8s have a chance.

Traingeek3629
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Traingeek3629 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 am

Ok...I look at this schedule and say...What the hell?

http://www.hartfordline.com/files/uploa ... rinted.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4401 doesn't go to SPG anymore.
When 4400 was bumped up to 6:47 arrival in HFD, they just kept 4452 at 7:27, rather than moving it up a bit
4:29, 5:05, 5:57, and 6:20 from Hartford?????? Can't the 5:57 be a bit earlier? And get an MNR connection?
Still no trains leaving Hartford on Saturday nights between 6 PM and 10:30 PM! 169 is Sat/Sun, can't they run that on Saturday nights as well?

Most of these aren't even caused by the MNR schedule changes! I don't know who makes these schedules, but they should do a better job of it.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Jeff Smith » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:43 am

NH2060 wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote:The M-8's may never run on SLE , internal rumblings suggest that to many obstacles are being thrown in, to prevent their use.
I think it's time the rest of us just give up on that dream even though they were built with said use in mind and they did not come cheap. At this rate we'll see CTrail painted Siemens Chargers on SLE before the M-8s have a chance.
IIRC, the *8's were ordered with the extra capability needed to run on SLE and into Penn. It would be a pretty big waste not to run them out to New London. That said... yeah, it doesn't look promising. And even with the supplemental order, they're going to be needed for main line and probably Penn. That doesn't seem to leave any extra...
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DutchRailnut
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:51 pm

cars have been in service for 8 years , progress with Amtrak about zero , It just seems Amtrak does not want them on SLE .
as for NYP they still would need Amtrak approval so don't get your hopes up.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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EuroStar
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by EuroStar » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:37 pm

daybeers wrote:Sidings need to be electrified and station upgrades need to be completed at Madison and Clinton first, though, but couldn't they start testing the M8s as soon as electrification is finished?
At the end of the day, isn't it primarily all about the money? I imagine if CT was willing to pay enough to get all improvements funded and done quickly then things might look different. The Hartford Line itself is an example: with the money there, Amtrak actually got the thing build (it was late and over the original budget, but it got done). Penn Station Access seems a case in the point too: New York is paying for all improvements (third track and stations), so Amtrak folded on their demands for funding the bridge replacement. NY has additional leverage though as it subsidizes the trains to Albany and Buffalo. CT does not really have an analogous lever to push.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:14 pm

As for the Hartford Line service, with the upcoming schedule changes, I think there is some room for improvement. Being that Metro North Train # 6518 will arrive into New Haven ten minutes before Ctrail Hartford Line Train # 6454 departs New Haven, that is a bit less time then what the current timetable is. When I wanted to go to Hartford on Ctrail Train # 6454 last Saturday and Metro North train # 6518 was running about 30 minutes late, it would have been very nice for Ctrail Train # 6454 to wait. Is CDOT thinking people who were left behind by 6454 would take the Amtrak Vermonter which obviously doesn't accept Hartford Line tickets and you often have to pay a greater fare. With the upcoming 10 minute transfer layover between some of the MNR and Ctrail trains, CDOT should probabaly adjust the times that the Ctrail Trains leave New Haven by five minutes at the very least.

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JcPinCT
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by JcPinCT » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:37 pm

CTDOT confirms that track capacity issues north of Hartford are the reason for the lack of commuter rail service to Springfield during the morning rush.
https://www.nepr.net/post/no-more-early ... ld#stream/

lordsigma12345
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by lordsigma12345 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:41 pm

Traingeek3629 wrote:Ok...I look at this schedule and say...What the hell?

http://www.hartfordline.com/files/uploa ... rinted.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4401 doesn't go to SPG anymore.
When 4400 was bumped up to 6:47 arrival in HFD, they just kept 4452 at 7:27, rather than moving it up a bit
4:29, 5:05, 5:57, and 6:20 from Hartford?????? Can't the 5:57 be a bit earlier? And get an MNR connection?
Still no trains leaving Hartford on Saturday nights between 6 PM and 10:30 PM! 169 is Sat/Sun, can't they run that on Saturday nights as well?

Most of these aren't even caused by the MNR schedule changes! I don't know who makes these schedules, but they should do a better job of it.
The change which cut the train to Springfield was motivated by providing a better option for northbound commuters into Hartford - 4401 had very little usage. The unfortunate thing is that the southbound train that originated in Springfield after turning 4401 DID get use - but also had to be cut due to the current limitations of the service - one response I didnt like what that CTDOT cited the single track when asked why they can't do a pre 9 AM arrival to SPG, when really the reason is lack of available equipment and the way the operation is currently designed with the ctrail equipment currently based all in New Haven and the Amtrak equipment based all in Springfield...

In fairness to CT though Mass is not contributing to the CTrail side of things so CTDOT's atittude is that Springfield will just have to be happy with what they're willing to give them and Amtrak will have to continue to carry the majority of the north of Hartford side of the line (MA does pay for the Amtrak side.)

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:52 am

I believe that 4401 had very little usage given the time that it left New Haven and it arrived into Springfield. Sadly, with a lack of a second track available north of Windsor, I don't think the State can really do much, in terms of adding too many more trains north of Hartford during times when people need to use them. As of right now, it seems like if you are commuting to a job anywhere north of Hartford, then the train isn't the best option, unless if your job begins later than most other jobs. The train is good for these following living and commuting scenarios; A)if you work anywhere between New Haven and Hartford and live either in between one of the two cities or a little west, B)if you work in Fairfield County and live between New Haven and Hartford. If you live north of Hartford, your options are basically limited, especially if you work a 9:00 to 5:00 job in New Haven. For that, you do have Amtrak Train # 485.
If the State of Connecticut managed their money better, the entire Springfield Line would have been double tracked by now. If you live in Springfield and work in Hartford, you would probably be better off taking the bus if your shift is between 8:00 and 4:00.

lordsigma12345
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by lordsigma12345 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:46 pm

Springfield High Level Platform Work next week:
https://www.springfield-ma.gov/dpw/inde ... fic_alerts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dha10001
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by dha10001 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:12 pm

Officials present alternative plan for train station in Enfield

https://www.journalinquirer.com/towns/e ... 016d8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Enfield officials look to get an interim platform set up on the existing single track while funding for full build-out remains out of reach.

daybeers
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by daybeers » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:31 pm

The schedule changes are quite unfortunate for those living north of Hartford, but the service wasn't great to begin with anyway. Yes, I agree that it's an equipment issue more than a double-track issue. Sure, a double track is needed and would be nice, but isn't totally necessary unless you want to run trains through there at very high traffic times. Even so, the Connecticut River Bridge is still single track. Equipment wouldn't be an issue if the M8s were being used on SLE. The Hartford Line would get the Shoreliners to supplement the MBB coaches. Ridiculous.
njt/mnrrbuff wrote:If the State of Connecticut managed their money better, the entire Springfield Line would have been double tracked by now.
You can thank Dan Malloy for that one haha!

Seems like the new platform in Springfield is coming along, which is great to see! I hope the Hartford Line publicizes it a ton once it's finished!

Good on Enfield for taking action: it's more than the other towns with potential future infill stations have done!

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