• Finger Lakes Railway (FGLK) Discussion

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by terms-d
 
CPSD40-2 wrote:I am hopeful that sometime soon we'll all know whats happening with the Corning Secondary north of Geneva. Until then, I'll keep my hopes up that there's a deal in the works. I crossed the line at Packwood Rd last week, after noticing that for the first time in a LONG time, all of the stored cars were cleared off Dove Siding and the main. North of Packwood Rd though, the rails are still rusty, and there's brush that looks to be pretty heavy growing up between the ties. I would assume that a detailed inspection of the line would be in order prior to use, and given the brush, I wonder if they will have to run a brush cutter through there before even the inspection can happen? After all, wasn't the line placed OOS by NS due to some specific part of the line "needing repair"?
Those cars on Rich siding appeared to be the same ones that RockTenn in Solvay uses, so maybe business picked up and they needed them out there. Either way, I doubt it's any indication that anything is happening with the Corning Secondary.

It would certainly take some time to get the line into operable condition again and getting everyone qualified. The line has been out of service for so long that even those qualified on it previously would need to be requalified.

As to why the line was taken out of service, the official reason may be maintenance-related, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest the real reasons were more political in nature and will probably never be fully revealed. Rather than speculate reasons why it was taken out of service in the first place however, let's just hope FGLK is able to work out an agreement with NS. A lot of NS personnel are spreading rumors that a deal has already been reached in which FGLK will bring cars to Baker St. Yard in Corning, but until something appears on an NS bulletin or from the Surface Transportation Board, I wouldn't put much stock in this rumor -- it's just one of many that have yet to come to fruition.
  by scharnhorst
 
terms-d wrote:
CPSD40-2 wrote:I am hopeful that sometime soon we'll all know whats happening with the Corning Secondary north of Geneva. Until then, I'll keep my hopes up that there's a deal in the works. I crossed the line at Packwood Rd last week, after noticing that for the first time in a LONG time, all of the stored cars were cleared off Dove Siding and the main. North of Packwood Rd though, the rails are still rusty, and there's brush that looks to be pretty heavy growing up between the ties. I would assume that a detailed inspection of the line would be in order prior to use, and given the brush, I wonder if they will have to run a brush cutter through there before even the inspection can happen? After all, wasn't the line placed OOS by NS due to some specific part of the line "needing repair"?
Those cars on Rich siding appeared to be the same ones that RockTenn in Solvay uses, so maybe business picked up and they needed them out there. Either way, I doubt it's any indication that anything is happening with the Corning Secondary.

It would certainly take some time to get the line into operable condition again and getting everyone qualified. The line has been out of service for so long that even those qualified on it previously would need to be requalified.

As to why the line was taken out of service, the official reason may be maintenance-related, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest the real reasons were more political in nature and will probably never be fully revealed. Rather than speculate reasons why it was taken out of service in the first place however, let's just hope FGLK is able to work out an agreement with NS. A lot of NS personnel are spreading rumors that a deal has already been reached in which FGLK will bring cars to Baker St. Yard in Corning, but until something appears on an NS bulletin or from the Surface Transportation Board, I wouldn't put much stock in this rumor -- it's just one of many that have yet to come to fruition.

I'm hearing the same thing's a buddy of mine called to tell me Friday that it was a done deal that NS sold the whole line to Finger Lakes and he got it second hand from his father who got the info while at a Lehigh Valley Vets meeting. It seems that a lot of them guys are being vary heavily misinformed on non-Lehigh Valley related stuff.

In my opinion I could not for see NS selling the whole thing to Finger Lakes I could see Geneva to Lyons being the main target which is something that FGLK and NS have been chattering about for god knows how many years now being sold to FGLK. The section from Geneva to Corning I have my doubts that NS would let that go with out some sort of trackage rights agreement going as far as the Power plant if anything I could see NS Lease the line to Finger Lakes. True the Power plant is closed nobody needs to remind me of that but stranger things have happened and power plants have reopened up for one reason or another in the past.
  by BR&P
 
Scharnhorst wrote:In my opinion I could not for see NS selling the whole thing to Finger Lakes
Looking at it from the other point of view, I can't see why FGLK would want to go to Corning. It's more miles, more crew time, more fuel...for what? True, NS could perhaps offer a bigger piece of the revenue pie to FGLK. There could be a small - very small - benefit to FGLK in knowing just when the cars from Corning would be coming to Geneva, instead of being subject to NS's schedule. But there would be little financial incentive to that.

Things of this nature are never simple, and usually involve lots of details and plans which are not made public until after the fact, if even then. So I don't pretend to know all the angles. But at this point, I don't see any reason why FGLK would WANT to go to Corning.
  by PVRX1
 
What is the motive power these days? Google Earth shows 4 GE's on a siding in the woods, near the shop.

Farmrail / Grainbetlt, FGLK, and I believe Massachusetts Central as well are all intertwined in ownership.

The Geneva - Lyons segment should be the only part of the Corning Secondary being transacted.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
BR&P wrote:
Scharnhorst wrote:In my opinion I could not for see NS selling the whole thing to Finger Lakes
Looking at it from the other point of view, I can't see why FGLK would want to go to Corning. It's more miles, more crew time, more fuel...for what? True, NS could perhaps offer a bigger piece of the revenue pie to FGLK. There could be a small - very small - benefit to FGLK in knowing just when the cars from Corning would be coming to Geneva, instead of being subject to NS's schedule. But there would be little financial incentive to that.

Things of this nature are never simple, and usually involve lots of details and plans which are not made public until after the fact, if even then. So I don't pretend to know all the angles. But at this point, I don't see any reason why FGLK would WANT to go to Corning.
Agreed. H06 can head north with 50+ cars these days. If they did acquire the entire Corning Secondary, FGLK would probably have to acquire (or lease) additional six axle horsepower in order to tackle the grades on the Corning Secondary with that much traffic, or else run several trains per day down to Baker Street. There has been no STB filing regarding the Corning Secondary south of Geneva since the CR split, so it seems logical to guess the status quo on the Corning-Geneva segment will continue.
  by poppyl
 
Speculation certainly is fun, isn't it. I suspect that there is more going on behind the scenes than any of us here are aware.

While the beancounters probably will have the final say on what happens to the Secondary south of Geneva, I believe that the deal will be done on transferring Geneva-Lyons to FGLK. I have to think that NS has done the precursor traffic analysis indicating that the reopening of the Lyons CSX interchange will not substantially impact their HO6 interchange traffic. On the other hand, this could be part of a larger negotiation (beancounters included) with the FGLK on the entire Secondary (or perhaps only the stretch between Geneva and Himrod but I doubt this since there is no way currently for NS to conveniently hand off traffic at Himrod).

I suspect that both sides want to maintain the Secondary and its interchange traffic from their business perspectives. I could see a scenario under which FGLK establishes service between Baker Street and Syracuse via Geneva using the six axles now on the Geneva-Syracuse route (seems to me that the old NYC and PC had this service back in the day). Restore the Randall's crossing siding and let the through train drop the HW1 traffic from either direction saving time on traffic now going by Himrod northbound on NS and then coming back south on FGLK.

I'll save any discussion on other future Secondary traffic for another time or thread.

Poppyl
  by scharnhorst
 
poppyl wrote:Speculation certainly is fun, isn't it. I suspect that there is more going on behind the scenes than any of us here are aware.

While the beancounters probably will have the final say on what happens to the Secondary south of Geneva, I believe that the deal will be done on transferring Geneva-Lyons to FGLK. I have to think that NS has done the precursor traffic analysis indicating that the reopening of the Lyons CSX interchange will not substantially impact their HO6 interchange traffic. On the other hand, this could be part of a larger negotiation (beancounters included) with the FGLK on the entire Secondary (or perhaps only the stretch between Geneva and Himrod but I doubt this since there is no way currently for NS to conveniently hand off traffic at Himrod).

I suspect that both sides want to maintain the Secondary and its interchange traffic from their business perspectives. I could see a scenario under which FGLK establishes service between Baker Street and Syracuse via Geneva using the six axles now on the Geneva-Syracuse route (seems to me that the old NYC and PC had this service back in the day). Restore the Randall's crossing siding and let the through train drop the HW1 traffic from either direction saving time on traffic now going by Himrod northbound on NS and then coming back south on FGLK.

I'll save any discussion on other future Secondary traffic for another time or thread.

Poppyl

We could back this up just a bit NS could interchange at Himrod by way of giving Finger Lakes trackage rights down to Dresden from Himrod JCT and maybe utilize the old Yard at the power plant as an interchange yard??
  by scottychaos
 
PVRX1 wrote:What is the motive power these days? Google Earth shows 4 GE's on a siding in the woods, near the shop.

Farmrail / Grainbetlt, FGLK, and I believe Massachusetts Central as well are all intertwined in ownership.

The Geneva - Lyons segment should be the only part of the Corning Secondary being transacted.
Full roster here:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/FGLK/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

10 FGLK units working on FGLK rails, plus the two leased EMD SD40M-2 unit. (SD45 carbodies)
And two FGLK leased out to Fort Edward, NY, working at the GE Hudson River dredging project.

And yes, four GE's are stored in Geneva, 1989 and 2307 are OOS, presumably to return to service, pending repairs.
and 2300 and 2820 have never operated with FGLK, and were purchased as parts units.

Scot
  by scharnhorst
 
scottychaos wrote:
PVRX1 wrote:What is the motive power these days? Google Earth shows 4 GE's on a siding in the woods, near the shop.

Farmrail / Grainbetlt, FGLK, and I believe Massachusetts Central as well are all intertwined in ownership.

The Geneva - Lyons segment should be the only part of the Corning Secondary being transacted.
Full roster here:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/FGLK/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

10 FGLK units working on FGLK rails, plus the two leased EMD SD40M-2 unit. (SD45 carbodies)
And two FGLK leased out to Fort Edward, NY, working at the GE Hudson River dredging project.

And yes, four GE's are stored in Geneva, 1989 and 2307 are OOS, presumably to return to service, pending repairs.
and 2300 and 2820 have never operated with FGLK, and were purchased as parts units.

Scot
2 FGLK units are also working the Ethanol Plant in Fulton.
  by scottychaos
 
scharnhorst wrote:
2 FGLK units are also working the Ethanol Plant in Fulton.
Correct! I never did get that added to the roster page from last summer.
Page is now updated for January 2014:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/FGLK/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thanks,
Scot
  by PVRX1
 
Thanks guys. I never really explored the Finger Lakes Rwy so I was looking for fodder for an upcoming road trip. JH
  by nessman
 
Aside from the FGLK interchange in Geneva, who else is a NS customer on the Corning Secondary these days?
  by Matt Langworthy
 
Other than interchange traffic, NS has no customers on the line north of Corning. Lidestri Foods moved from Dundee to Rochester a year or two ago, and the AES plant has closed down, too.
Last edited by Matt Langworthy on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
poppyl wrote:I could see a scenario under which FGLK establishes service between Baker Street and Syracuse via Geneva using the six axles now on the Geneva-Syracuse route (seems to me that the old NYC and PC had this service back in the day). Restore the Randall's crossing siding and let the through train drop the HW1 traffic from either direction saving time on traffic now going by Himrod northbound on NS and then coming back south on FGLK.
Since the traffic interchanged with CSX would at least remain the same (and probably grow) after the Geneva-Lyons is sold to FGLK, I think the current SDs would still be needed for the run to Lyons and/or Solvay. FGLK would probably get at least 2 more SDs to handle the Geneva-Corning run... or perhaps even 4 SDs to ensure sufficient back-up power. This would add to operating expenses, without adding any new revenue. Why would FGLK want the Corning-Lyons segment?
Last edited by Matt Langworthy on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by poppyl
 
Matt;

I'm not necessarily arguing with your logic but there is the issue of FGLK getting to Himrod from Geneva and what I've been led to believe is the business attractiveness to FGLK of maintaining interchange capability with the two Class I's. IMO, the Secondary between Himrod and Geneva would survive one way or another. South of Himrod probably depends upon how important the interchange is to NS and/or FGLK.

Speaking of that, you are correct that there currently are no customers between Himrod and Baker Street on the Secondary. The Reading Center project may never see the light of day and while there have been a few groups nosing around the Dundee Foods facility, no money has been put on the table yet. It is my understanding that the gravel pit operator located just north of Dundee next to the Secondary who receives the rock cars at Himrod had entertained the idea of a siding for the rock cars adjacent to his gravel pit. But the cost of installing the siding and the transportation charges for NS to move the cars from Geneva were more than he wanted to invest.

Poppyl
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