Federal, Night Owl, Twilight Shoreliner (Trains 65, 66, 67)

RandallW wrote:

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:57 am Well they need to change engines in D.C., so a sleeper at the head end could easily be added or removed with the engine.

The Airo trains will do away with the engine changes, so I doubt Amtrak will re-introduce a sleeper just to kill it a couple of years later.

If Amtrak were to do it properly, it would be expressly WAS to BOS, using a dorm-only sleeper with a single wheelchair accessible room, cafe service for a few hours after leaving and before arrival, keep the "Night Owl" name and change the train numbers to 9 and 10. Need to go further into VA? Grab the Airo at WAS after you got some coffee and breakfast.

Aren't Airo trains supposed to be permanently coupled sets? Surely there's no way to add a sleeper at an Airo train, particularly since they're supposed to run in push-pull, if I'm not mistaken.

RandallW wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:10 pm

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:57 am Well they need to change engines in D.C., so a sleeper at the head end could easily be added or removed with the engine.

The Airo trains will do away with the engine changes, so I doubt Amtrak will re-introduce a sleeper just to kill it a couple of years

Easy way to test and build the market for sleeper service. Maybe a lie-flat-seat car could be part of a few Airo sets or maybe Amtrak would like to retain a conventional Amfleet consist for the Night Owl which is relatively slow, could be pulled by diesels for overnight wire maintenance, could be routed inland for major overnight construction projects and even could bring back much needed checked baggage service on the NEC. Lord knows they will have a lot of surplus Amfleet equipment available.

Also this would be a great opportunity to test out lie-flat seats on an overnight train now before the Airo equipment design is finalized. Convert a few Amfleet coaches now for little money and see what happens.

All the Airo trains have diesels on them.

RandallW wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:36 pm All the Airo trains have diesels on them.

Oh yeah. Forgot there is no all-electric version which seems wasteful since not every train is going south of D.C., right? Those lower level (and low-level) platforms are going to be pretty busy. Haven't heard of any plans to build high-level platforms there. Capitol Limited would have to be converted to single-level equipment in the meantime assuming new long-distance (single level?) trains won't be ready.

Thanks for the correction.

Most if not all new platforms recently built south of DC are high level (Roanoke, Raleigh, Charlotte, Tampa), but it seems those platforms are all on tracks separate from freight services. New platforms in VRE, SunRail, and Tri-Rail are low level since those services can't use high level platforms, and rebuilt platforms on tracks used for freight services also seem to remain low.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:26 am Oh yeah. Forgot there is no all-electric version which seems wasteful since not every train is going south of D.C., right? Those lower level (and low-level) platforms are going to be pretty busy. Haven't heard of any plans to build high-level platforms there. Capitol Limited would have to be converted to single-level equipment in the meantime assuming new long-distance (single level?) trains won't be ready.

RandallW wrote:Most if not all new platforms recently built south of DC are high level (Roanoke, Raleigh, Charlotte, Tampa), but it seems those platforms are all on tracks separate from freight services. New platforms in VRE, SunRail, and Tri-Rail are low level since those services can't use high level platforms, and rebuilt platforms on tracks used for freight services also seem to remain low.

It will likely be mixed platform until VRE switches to non-Gallery-style equipment (maybe a Metra-like Bombardier Multilevel, with a door at low level). But remember the terminus side of Washington Union Station has a lot of low-level platforms as well that MARC has to deal with.

Granted, switching the Capitol Limited to Viewliner equipment would help that line in terms of flexiblity, but I'd rather see the Night Owl be running that equipment over an Airo set.

I doubt we'll get an Airo sleeper. Not with Amtrak's order.

I would think a diesel-with-electric-pack engine based off the SLC-44/ALC-42 would be better off, with a baggage section sharing the electric pack and a cab car at the other end. IE, make the Viewliners a bit more Airo-ish. Would solve some problems, now wouldn't it?

"I suspect the non-observance of nighttime protocols may be an individual crew issue," wrote jamoldover. I hope that's true now. I've ridden the Night Owl many times over the decades, but not for ten years or more. Only on one trip do I recall the thru passengers being put in a separate coach and not bothered till morning. On all other trips I was required to show a ticket in New York. But maybe things are better nowadays.

They definitely recheck everyone's ticket in NYC during the absurdly long layover with the platform lights blinding you.

However, that issue is moot at the moment since the train is not running north of NYP.

It never fails, someone suggests placing lay flat seats aboard an Amtrak coach train, or at least test it.
Why? Every past study by Amtrak has shown the price to break even for a lay flat seat will be twice that of a regular Roomette sleeper which can be double occupancy. If I were riding solo, I would want a roomette over a lay flat seat anyways for the additional privacy.

Every past study by Amtrak has shown the price to break even for a lay flat seat will be twice that of a regular Roomette sleeper which can be double occupancy

Do you have any links to a study of this? I'm curious to see what methodology was applied. I have to imagine the lack of a bunk hurts lay-flat capacity vs. a roomette, but also wonder what the cost of operations (staff included) and maintenance of a sleeper are vs. a lay-flat coach. All I know is that lack of an ability to lie down will keep me from ever taking those trains again. Anyway, it's all moot w/out equipment to run on the trains.

We would all love to see these past studies.

I've been reading through my old issues of Passenger Train Journal and found an interesting series of comments about the Night Owl:

“We were shuffled into a brightly lit Amcoach where the seats did not recline, the windows did not close [could not be covered by curtains] and the crew seemed to take sadistic pleasure in neglecting to notice this was an overnight train. Long-hauls and shorts were grouped willy-nilly into the same car and then rousted with loud p.a. announcements. The ultimate indignity came at New York, where the new crew came aboard and woke each passenger up merely to ask what his or her destination was—without even bothering to look at our ticket stubs.”
—”Amtrak’s ‘Spite’ Owl?” letter from Alan Flipen, “Hot Box,” Passenger Train Journal, December 1988, p. 16

“Mr. Flippen [spelled wrong when Passenger Train Journal printed Flipen’s letter] certainly has the right to expect that crew members not awaken sleeping passengers when their ticket checks can be easily examined above their seats.…
“Night Owl coaches are not equipped with curtains. Passenger cars should, however, be provided with pillows.… it would be difficult to segregate passengers by destination … However, I have asked the Passenger Services and Transportation Departments to consider improvements to the boarding plan.”
—W. Graham Claytor Jr., President [Amtrak], “Another Carrier Responds,”“L.C.L.,” Passenger Train Journal, February 1989, p. 38

“Early this year, a 60-seat long-distance coach was added to the head-end … that coach is to carry pillows …”
—“Night Owl Improvement,” “L.C.L.,” Passenger Train Journal, March 1989, p. 46

Aha! The thru coach that I rode in spring 1992 from Boston to Washington. That's the way it should be done, espcially now that assigning pax to cars by destination is commonly done in Chicago by methods easily adaptable to either WUS or BOS.

Literalman wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 4:12 pm I've been reading through my old issues of Passenger Train Journal and found an interesting series of comments about the Night Owl:

Lol nothing ever changes.