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  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1571550  by gokeefe
 
David Benton wrote:Why not have both on each train , and charge more for the V2's.
Because that could cause serious problems if one car is bad ordered. You increase complexity for only minimal return. I think the marketing angle here is talking up routes that have V-2s assigned.

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 #1571597  by west point
 
We have too many persons who are ready to put the V-2sleepers out in the boonies too soon. Amtrak needs to keep them close to the major maintenance location of MIA. The institutional knowledge curve will be much higher keeping them close to one maintenance base. Since all have not even been delivered it is better that when they can be released east coast wise their reliability will be much higher than the V-1s.

That will also be important when the V-1s are cycled for refurbishment and the changes from V-2s are implemented. I expect that we may see 2 V-2s on each silver train set once enough are available for revenue service. That probably with 1 in reserve at SSY. Then maybe either 2 - 1 on each Cardinal train set or 3 = 1 on each LSL train set. Crescent unlikely for the CY as NOL too far away.
 #1571772  by Matt Johnson
 
jp1822 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:38 pm
Amtrak killed this service before it even had a chance.
I was shocked to learn that the sleeper is closed south of DC, with passengers traveling further being kicked out and sent to sit in coach! So much for the sleeper being a nice option for reaching Williamsburg or Newport News.
 #1571778  by Arlington
 
WAS is a station that has the know how and parts and equipment necessary to service the Viewliners (and swap them on and off if need be).

Tidewater stations? No such capabilities.
 #1571779  by danib62
 
Viewliners used to run regularly down to Newport News in the twilight shoreliner days. Also the Viewliner is still running down to Newport News and being serviced there, it’s just vacant after WAS.
 #1571781  by jp1822
 
west point wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:47 pm We have too many persons who are ready to put the V-2sleepers out in the boonies too soon. Amtrak needs to keep them close to the major maintenance location of MIA. The institutional knowledge curve will be much higher keeping them close to one maintenance base. Since all have not even been delivered it is better that when they can be released east coast wise their reliability will be much higher than the V-1s.

That will also be important when the V-1s are cycled for refurbishment and the changes from V-2s are implemented. I expect that we may see 2 V-2s on each silver train set once enough are available for revenue service. That probably with 1 in reserve at SSY. Then maybe either 2 - 1 on each Cardinal train set or 3 = 1 on each LSL train set. Crescent unlikely for the CY as NOL too far away.
The Viewliner II sleepers need to be put into service - they’ve spent a lot of storage time in Hialeah already! All Viewliner sleepers are cycled into NYP, and then from NYP they can be put on a Florida train and taken down to Miami. Only the Silver Star and Silver Meteor serve Miami directly, and those trains are destined to get the Viewliner II Sleepers first (3 for each train set of the Meteor, and 2 for each train set of the Star). Instead of 39 Viewliners being required for service, with the RESTORATION of NEC sleeper service, it now means that 41 Viewliners are required for regular service. Amtrak has 50 Viewliner I’s and 25 VIewliner II’s (20 of the 25 have been delivered). The purpose of the VIewliner II sleepers was to augment the single level overnight LD fleet with more sleepers. But Amtrak has not defined how or where it plans to do this.

So the math favors that Amtrak is sitting on a surplus of Viewliner sleepers that need to start getting broken in. Moreover, Amtrak is still seeing an uptick in demand for private rooms. Even at tri-weekly, Amtrak’s restored train sets to pre-COVID sleeper quantity levels. So it’s time to get the Viewliner I and II sleepers assigned to service.

Again, all the Viewliners are “eastern based” and cycled in/out of NYP. Only Sunnyside Yard and Hialeah (in Miami) do any repairs or major servicing of the Viewliners. Chicago, Boston, and New Orleans do minor or basic repairs. Otherwise, they are sent back to NYP Sunnyside Yard for “help” and if Sunnyside can’t do it, they head to Hialeah.

THe current Amtrak regime, unlike the Boardman Amtrak regime have spoken NOTHING about converting or re-modeling the Viewliner I’s to be identical or similar to the Viewliner II layout/operation. Yes, all planned at one time, but not talked about since Boardman left office, several years ago now! I think at best, the Viewliner I’s will be rotated into getting some sort of overhaul, but nothing drastic...... Thus you are likely looking at 3 to 5 Viewliner Is being cycled for maintenance.

But again, out of a total of 75 Viewliner sleepers (5 yet to be delivered), there are only 41 assigned to regular service. That’s a lot that are still sidelined awaiting for duty! Put another way - that’s a lot of potential lost revenue that Amtrak is not obtaining due to the Viewliner sleepers idling and not put into service!

Again, hopefully the Silver Meteor and Silver Star get outfitted with Viewliner II’s:

- 3 sleepers per Meteor trainset, 4 train sets required for daily service = 12 Viewliner IIs assigned
- 2 sleepers per Star trainset, 4 train sets required for daily service = 8 Viewliner IIs assigned

That’s 20 Viewliner IIs being put into Florida based service, where either the remaining 5 Viewliner IIs can be rotated in for service, or they use the displaced VIewliner 1s.

Eventually, where do you put an additional 16 Viewliner sleepers, so as to have 57 in service, and 18 in reserve (or 25% in reserve as Amtrak has liked to have)?

I have to wonder if Amtrak will convert the Capitol Limited to a single level LD train set. That would likely take 6 to 9 of the remaining 16 sleepers. It would free up much needed Superliners. Also, originally it was discussed that the Pennsylvanian would carry Viewliners so they could be “through cars” and forwarded to the Capitol Limited at Pittsburgh. That discussion and idea too has gone by the wayside. It was hoped that each eastern LD train set would get an additional Viewliner in its consist when fully utilizing the available Viewliner fleet. Including the Cardinal, but excluding the NEC overnight sleeper service, there are 17 eastern LD train sets. So its still conceivable each train set gets 1 extra sleeper overall, again excluding the NEC overnight service.
 #1571782  by electricron
 
The Virginia extensions of corridor trains are subsidized by Virginia south of DC. If Virginia, North Carolina, or Pennsylvania refuse to subsidize first class sleeper services paying the salary of the sleeping car attendant, then why should Amtrak loose money on them. On the corridor north of DC that's all Amtrak business, and it is them that decides how much money they will make or lose providing the sleeper service. I can understand the accounting going on, does not really matter if I agree with it or not. If the States are willing to subsidize the sleepers and subsidize the sleeping car attendant salary, then Amtrak will probably keep them open south of DC or west of Harrisburg.
 #1571857  by west point
 
jp1822: here is a quote from your post
Again, hopefully the Silver Meteor and Silver Star get outfitted with Viewliner II’s:

" - 3 sleepers per Meteor trainset, 4 train sets required for daily service = 12 Viewliner IIs assigned
- 2 sleepers per Star trainset, 4 train sets required for daily service = 8 Viewliner IIs assigned

That’s 20 Viewliner IIs being put into Florida based service, where either the remaining 5 Viewliner IIs can be rotated in for service, or they use the displaced VIewliner 1s."

You have completely neglected the necessary rotating of V-1s to MIA . Naturally I do no pretend to know Amtrak plans for the V-s and V-2s but one possibility would be 2 - V1s and 2 V-2s onMeteor and 1 each V-1 and V-2 on the star.

On another post Arlington mentioned WASH could rotate out Viewliner sleepers. AFAIK there is no spare V-1 or V-2 located in WASH. What I have not understood is that the V-2 night owl sleeper is located on the front of the train just behind the motor. Why is Amtrak not leaving the sleeper attached to motor when the train is changed to a diesel ? The only reason is the rare times a diesel is motive power for night owl ?
 #1571883  by STrRedWolf
 
west point wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 8:04 pm On another post Arlington mentioned WASH could rotate out Viewliner sleepers. AFAIK there is no spare V-1 or V-2 located in WASH. What I have not understood is that the V-2 night owl sleeper is located on the front of the train just behind the motor. Why is Amtrak not leaving the sleeper attached to motor when the train is changed to a diesel ? The only reason is the rare times a diesel is motive power for night owl ?
The only things I can think of is that:
  • WAS cannot currently service ether Viewliner sleepers.
  • WAS on-track operations (or Amtrak general operating procedure) prohibit pulling the sleepers there.
Besides, they swap the engines in the First Street Tunnel. There may be limitations on how long the catenary is there.
 #1571888  by Gilbert B Norman
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 6:09 am The only things I can think of is that:
  • WAS cannot currently service ether Viewliner sleepers.
  • WAS on-track operations (or Amtrak general operating procedure) prohibit pulling the sleepers there.
Regarding Mr. Wolf's captioned points, any such Viewliner assigned would presently be the only such turning at WAS, although, lest we forget, they did so during the '18-'19 Penn Station "disruptions".

Secondly, many a pre-Amtrak road had Sleeper lines, e.g. Wash-Miami, that were added or cut with the diesel power. Possible safety regulations have since intervened, but it's been done in the past.
 #1571928  by STrRedWolf
 
It looks like right now, they can spare some V1's to run on the Night Owl and cycle them through the LSL. Not bad... but still...

As soon as more V2's come in, they should start rotating out and rebuilding the V1's.
 #1571949  by RRspatch
 
electricron wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 7:50 pm
STrRedWolf wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 2:04 pm As soon as more V2's come in, they should start rotating out and rebuilding the V1's.
Who should be the "they" that should refurbish the V1s?
Can Amtrak afford losing 50 more months, yes one per month on average, refurbishing them?
I was under the impression that Beech Grove would do the rebuild work on the V1's and not CAF. Of course Beech Grove would have to get the room modules from CAF so .... I would hope just maybe CAF would be better at building room modules than entire sleeping cars.
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