Railroad Forums 

  • Extending the stub end tracks at Suburban Station

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1486302  by NIMBYkiller
 
Apologies if this has been asked here previously; I am not a frequent visitor to the Septa page. Is there anything structural that precludes tracks 0, 5, 6, and 7 from being extended eastward? I'm curious as to whether or not those tracks could be extended to Camden and then hooked into the south jersey rail network to bring commuter service to an area or two (without having to take the grand tour of North Philly). Obviously they'd have to dive down to get under the tracks that are RR east of Market East station, but I'm guessing there's not much in the way that couldn't be relocated (ie, utility infrastructure). Suburban Station though, I'm not sure as I'm not familiar with it (haven't been there in at least 7 years).
 #1486324  by mtuandrew
 
Good idea though, right? South Jersey really ought to have the kinds of solid connections to Philly that North Jersey does to NYC.

Maybe it’ll happen during some future president’s Infrastructure Week :wink:
 #1486334  by MACTRAXX
 
NK and Everyone:

Sometime back in the 2000s (I believe that is when this occurred) a train slammed into the bulkhead wall at the east end of Track 0 at Suburban Station.
The hole in the wall behind the bumper block is still visible - so there is at least precedence to extending one of the Suburban Station stub tracks east :wink:

Back to topic: There is no need to extend Tracks 0,5,6 or 7 further east. Had that been deemed necessary it likely would have been part of the Center City
Commuter Connection project back during the years 1979-1984...MACTRAXX
 #1486364  by mcgrath618
 
The regional rail isn't the best option for SEPTA service to south Jersey atm.
I would venture that an extension of the BSL into Jersey would be more realistic and cost efficient.
I also have been saying for years that at this point it would make more fiscal sense for NJT to hand over the ACL to SEPTA. From there you could have some other lines branching off, but that is a decade off from even being considered at best.
 #1486387  by NIMBYkiller
 
I'm just looking to understand whether or not it is physically possible for those tracks to be extended eastward? And yes, obviously it would require 2 new tunnels (one on either side of the existing tunnel). But physically speaking, is there anything specifically barring this from being physically possible?
 #1486397  by mtuandrew
 
ACL isn’t the prize, it’s the Jersey-side suburbs that I think ought to have one-seat rail service to PHL via Camden. With the service levels the Pennsylvania suburbs have, and the service levels seen by North Jersey, it’s... well, not stunning, but frustrating that there isn’t a reasonable level of commuter rail service to South Jersey points.
 #1486423  by TWTRTECH
 
Here is an idea, I mean it's a start anyway. shift two stub tracks slightly north towards Arch street then continue east under Arch street as far as possible. there is already a short piece of tunnel under Arch street that isn't being used I believe near tenth street. just an idea.
 #1486435  by BuddCar711
 
TWTRTECH wrote:Here is an idea, I mean it's a start anyway. shift two stub tracks slightly north towards Arch street then continue east under Arch street as far as possible. there is already a short piece of tunnel under Arch street that isn't being used I believe near tenth street. just an idea.
Problem is that the tunnels under Arch Street were built to Broad Street Subway dimensions, which would mean a low ceiling. You would need a taller tunnel just to accommodate the height of a Silverliner IV railcar (let alone the clearance for the catenary). The tunnels would have to be rebuilt.
 #1486447  by TWTRTECH
 
BuddCar711 wrote:
TWTRTECH wrote:Here is an idea, I mean it's a start anyway. shift two stub tracks slightly north towards Arch street then continue east under Arch street as far as possible. there is already a short piece of tunnel under Arch street that isn't being used I believe near tenth street. just an idea.
Problem is that the tunnels under Arch Street were built to Broad Street Subway dimensions, which would mean a low ceiling. You would need a taller tunnel just to accommodate the height of a Silverliner IV railcar (let alone the clearance for the catenary). The tunnels would have to be rebuilt.
You are right, the tunnel would need to be modified, but that is only two blocks or so. the hard part would be digging the rest of the tunnel.
 #1486448  by JeffK
 
ChesterValley wrote:I'd wager it would be more cost effective to continue the Patco tunnel to West Philadelphia
I agree, but in typical Philly fashion the idea's been popping up since the 1970s and never gotten past the "gee, it would be a good idea" stage. No civic or political will and no money. </cynicism>
 #1486451  by ekt8750
 
I know adding traffic on the Delair Bridge isn't the wisest of things but it is there and the infrastructure is already in place to run a passenger rail system in South Jersey. There is currently a ROW and rail that connects the ACL to the freight side of the River Line. From there, there you have the Vineland and Beasley's Point Secondaries as well as what's left of the Grenloch Branch (I know 2/3 of it is now trails and is the least shovel ready of the three lines but could have the most biggest return on investment).