European Express Passenger consist sets

Jishnu wrote:Given that we are unlikely to see speeds higher than 150mph on the NEC anyway, it makes sense to go for locomotive hauled trains rather than articulated sets.

No, don't say that! The moderatorcensors will remove your post if you point that out. (BTW, the goal of traveling at least as fast as 150 mph for significant stretches, of railroad, or at least above 140 mph, hasn't even been attained. Funny how Germany can do that with the ICT tilting sets and not have to claim that it'd cost $7 billion to upgrade the railroad to allow same?)

I think the sooner we realize that the real reason that people flock to Acelas is more the ambience and the scheduling priority that they get, than the extra raw speed per se, the sooner we will start making more rational equipment decisions on the NEC.

Don't say that either! These points are too dangerous to discuss. In this little stifling environment, you must answer the question first before questioning the very purpose of the premise indicated in the first post. Conform, conform, conform!

jersey_emt wrote: Acelas don't use articulated sets. Articulated sets have two cars sharing one truck. Acela cars use the 'standard' two trucks per car with no articulation.

Try running any part of an Acela train separately. You can't do that. The whole set has to be together for it to work. I just meant it in that way.

The definition of Articulated Train from answer.com is:

articulated train (är′tik·yə′lād·əd ′trān)

(engineering) A railroad train whose cars are permanently or semipermanently connected.

The Acela consists are semi-permanently connected. So go and have an argument with the answer.com guys too.

according to Alstom:

Articulated trainsets, Guaranteeing comfort and safety
The principle

TGVs™ have always been designed by Alstom and the SNCF as articulated trainsets. This offers maximum weight reduction, comfort and safety.

The bogies (axles and wheels) of traditional trains are situated beneath the cars, and thus below the seats of the passengers. On a TGV™ however, they are placed between the individual cars. This eliminates the majority of vibrations and rolling noise on board, while the links between carriages absorb almost all of the movement between them.

http://www.transport.alstom.com/home/el ... ante=13956

I'll go with the industry experts over answer.com any day of the week.

icgsteve wrote: I'll go with the industry experts over answer.com any day of the week.

You're right. The original patent in which the term articulated train was used defines it as Alstom uses it. I just checked. The colloquial use of the term however, which predates the patent admits a more general use of the term as answer.com defines it. So I guess it is really not worth spending more time on this.

Irish Chieftain wrote:The moderatorcensors will remove your post if you point that out. (BTW, the goal of traveling at least as fast as 150 mph for significant stretches, of railroad, or at least above 140 mph, hasn't even been attained. Funny how Germany can do that with the ICT tilting sets and not have to claim that it'd cost $7 billion to upgrade the railroad to allow same?)

ICE-Ts have a maximum speed of 230 km/h (around 145 mph), and AFAIK rarely run faster than 200 km/h (125 mph) on conventional lines.

AFAYK? WADR, the ICT sets wouldn't have been built were there no advantage, especially on the curved segments of the traditional main lines. The regular IC (locomotive-hauled, comparable to Amtrak Regional) trains have a top speed of 137 mph (220 km/h) and have been operating at speeds around 125 mph since the 1970s. Station platforms have been altered for the ICT, with platform barriers erected to protect passengers as trains pass by at 143 mph (when it was IC trains alone, no such barriers existed).

The main advantage lies in that the tilting system enables the ICE-Ts to do higher speed through curves than ordinary stock. On straight track they're limited to the same speeds as other trains.

On straight track they're limited to the same speeds as other trains

The IC trains do not travel as fast as the ICT trains on straightaways, the latter being the faster.

Perhaps the ICE-1/2/3 operate no faster as the IC on traditional corridors, but they are en route to a NBS alignment and of course are non-tilting.

Amtrak Forum Moderator's Note:

Split off from an Amtrak discussion in coordination with the Creative Director, Mr Vondrak.

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Or else.


Now, let the discussion continue.

well i guess were discussing the benefits or lack of in tilt versus convential hsr ???
australia has tilt trains in Queemsland , these are probably closer to American style track / operating conditions. unfortunately they have had a bad run of luck , but are comfortable trains . ive got a trip report on them on here somewhere .

David Benton wrote:well i guess were discussing the benefits or lack of in tilt versus convential hsr ???
australia has tilt trains in Queemsland , these are probably closer to American style track / operating conditions. unfortunately they have had a bad run of luck , but are comfortable trains . ive got a trip report on them on here somewhere .

They are useful for running on old style track. The best high speed routes are new built, reasonably straight, level and without obstructions. But a huge amount of track in Britain is 150 or more years old. So tilting trains can be used on this "heritage" track.

yes , i guess tilt is superflous on a purpose built high speed track . but outside europe , i would think any new line would have to cater for high speed frieght as well to be economic .

USRailFan wrote: ICE-Ts have a maximum speed of 230 km/h (around 145 mph), and AFAIK rarely run faster than 200 km/h (125 mph) on conventional lines.

The speed limit on "conventional lines" is 125 mph for all trains, only Hamburg-Berlin is exempt; 145 mph are permitted on this line. However, tilting tech is not needed there.